Rob and Stone cover Dylan Frazier’s big weekend in the Windy City and the rest of the APP Chicago Open. The debate is on, where does the senior game fit into the pro landscape?

Get an inside look at the upcoming pro pickleball doubleheader. A new kind of ‘triple crown’ could break the monotony of the tournament schedule.

Like the ep?
Do us a favor: subscribe to our channel and leave a review on Apple and Spotify

Follow Rob, Adam and The Dink on IG @robnunnery & @adamstone_pb & @thedinkpickleball

Subscribe to our 'all things pickleball' free e-newsletter at https://www.thedinkpickleball.com/signup

For everything else we do, visit https://linktr.ee/dinkfam

Show Notes

06:00 The 27th seed Minnesota duo makes a Cinderella run
11:13 Pro men’s doubles Dylan Frazier stands out
20:15 The ‘favorites’ Dekel and JW go down
27:10 Women’s doubles breakdown
36:01 Women’s singles, Devidze is a force on the women’s scene
40:44 Men’s pro singles goes to Federico Staksrud
42:35 When does the draw become too big?
47:22 Senior ‘Pro’ Tour Debate
57:37 Pro Mixed Doubles Chicago Open
1:04:15 Preview PPA Peachtree Corners
1:15:30 New format proposal to break the tournament monotony

Transcript

Rob  0:02
We're here at him.

Adam Stone  0:04
Oh, we are here and it feels right. Once again, Trump once again, Robert,

Rob  0:08
because, you know, and I don't think we've mentioned this, but the it feels right podcast is presented by the dank. And no, that did not tell me to say that I just I'm that good. And I remembered that oh, yeah, that didn't helps us run this podcast.

Adam Stone  0:19
Well, well, Robert, we're just, you know, we're just we're so talented, you know, on the cord on the mic that I mean, we can't we can't do the little things. We can't do the editing. We can't do the little clip and making that the dinger does. So we're the talent and we need them and they do a great job.

Rob  0:35
Do you know how long it would take me to make one of those clips, they cut for social?

Adam Stone  0:40
Much shorter amount of time than me?

Rob  0:44
Just the guy who still can't get his mic set up?

Adam Stone  0:46
Correct. Karen taught me the other day how to copy and paste.

Rob  0:50
Oh, that's impressive. That's is that using? Is that using the right click? Or is that actually using it with the keyboard?

Adam Stone  0:56
No, the holding the hold the right click? Yeah. That helps in a lot of situations wrong. Yeah.

Rob  1:01
Copy Paste is very important. Yeah. So

Adam Stone  1:03
you know, I feel like um, you know, moving up in the world.

Rob  1:08
You know, it would be really annoying if you had a flip phone, but I think it'd be so much more on brand. If you had a flip phone.

Adam Stone  1:13
If I had a flip phone, right? Yeah. Or like, what like a sidekick? Was that one of the old ones? Or a T Mobile flip phone? Yeah, for sure. Like a moto razor? Yeah, but I do have like an iphone four. And there's Okay, 11 iPhones now. So I'm coming through in some form of, you know, being old and not in the loop. So you're welcome for that.

Rob  1:34
What I do appreciate is that you're not you're not a green bubble. I cannot. You know, I just cannot stand green bubbles.

Adam Stone  1:42
What? Oh, that's the non iMessage. Correct. Oh, yeah, that's prof and I

Rob  1:47
just refer to people that don't have iPhones is just your green bubble. And it's very frustrating.

Adam Stone  1:55
Yeah, profit is profit as a Google. She's a green bubble. So

Rob  1:59
yeah, she so Exactly. You're married to a green bubble. I'm sorry. Yeah, she

Adam Stone  2:03
has a lot of nice qualities. That's obviously not one of them.

Rob  2:07
And you'd think because she's like, kind of the ones that one that pulls you along in terms of technology and learning new stuff and buying new things and think she would have a blue bubble when she has a green bubble? Yeah,

Adam Stone  2:18
sure. She certainly does. So we needed

Rob  2:20
we needed to chat with her on that. Yeah, we do. And everybody has her flaws.

Adam Stone  2:25
Yeah, that's right. So. So Robert, what are we talking about today? Besides for what feels right? Well,

Rob  2:31
you went to Chicago, I sent my watch Chicago from Hawaii. You commentated a lot. Correct.

Adam Stone  2:39
I did, so I commentated Thursday, and Sunday, and then I played briefly on Friday, Saturday. So, yeah, so get it getting back in the swing of things after a few months off. You know, it's really weird that I was unable to finish the tournament considering I'm a elite professional athlete and phenomenal shape. You know, just you know, lots of those things. So it's very odd that I had to pull out and men's doubles on Saturday after after mixed doubles on Friday. So yeah, I mean, that never happens. Yeah, very, very odd stuff. I don't know what's going on. But you know, so if

Rob  3:20
we were chatting a bit what actually happened with because you said you were throwing up before and after so like that's, that's not super normal. Yeah,

Adam Stone  3:28
that's I that's happened before, but it's definitely not super normal. So I'm gonna place full blame on Chris Mills Miller, Legend of the game, who came to our wedding celebration the weekend weekend before and of course, got me in current sick for the week leading up to the tournament, so I'm sure that probably had some factor in there. But yes, I played three, three matches and mixed doubles with Rosie Johansson. And we had one when squeezed in there. I did some slight vomiting after the first round. carried over to the next day and men's doubles who Williams so Beck was shout out to him for being a last minute substitute for this. This Punku pulled out on me a couple of days before. So yeah, it was nice to get back out there that the legs were a little heavy. The hand speed was a little slow, but I had to get back out there at some point and sorry, to my partners for maybe not playing at my full capacity. They played great. And here we are. Here we

Rob  4:36
are. was Rosie just like, What is wrong with you? You've played one match.

Adam Stone  4:41
No, no, she didn't. I didn't. I didn't fully you know, let her know that. Oh, you're hiding in the bushes? Yes, I was hiding in the bushes. Sort of SO and she she she has a nice game. So we had a three we went to three game matchup in the first round and And she had a very nice run in singles The day before capturing a bronze medal. And so we'll just say I think her legs were a little heavy as well. Having played so much singles the day before. So we were, you know, started somewhat strong and had a pretty quick fade, or faded, faded heart. So, like I said, fun to get back out there and planning on playing a lot moving forward, the calf held up nicely. And that's, that's important. That's a good silver lining for the weekend.

Rob  5:31
And you and you and William. So back. You guys, did you guys play the Minnesota guys first round that we did that we played? Okay. So that was that was a little bit of a that was a kind of an interesting story over the weekend. They had some nice wins over, you know, Thomas, and DJ, and a couple of others, I believe, but yeah, talk about those guys.

Adam Stone  5:51
Yeah, so I will and I'm catching the name. I know one. One name was Don Kena. Yeah. And, man, my iPad is messing with me. But anyway, it's actually so I, I kind of recognize the name. And then I got on court with them. And I actually recognize the face. And I realized that I coached college tennis against him. So he was playing at gets Davis Adolphus, which is a division three school while I was coaching at the University of Texas at Tyler. So yeah, so I coached against him in college tennis, he was one of the better players in Division three. And to be honest with you, I think Division Three gets a bad rap sometimes, especially at the top end. Yeah. If the depth is not great at the Division Three level, the talent kind of fades. But what what division three is, is a lot of private schools and a lot of those tennis players coming out of high school, do they go to a middling? or smaller Division one? Or do they go to the division three and kind of have more of a well rounded college experience? So I think actually at the top end, especially nerds, out right, the top the top in the Top 10 Top 15 teams in Division Three are actually quite another talent

Rob  7:11
there D one quality Yeah, they're the top teams and d3 or D one quality for sure.

Adam Stone  7:16
Good. So I'm glad that you think the same thing so even though you know he's not a Dekel Bar tennis background or or maybe Thomas Wilson who went to the University of Texas, so a very talented tennis player. And to be honest with you, he really smacked the ball, Don Kena he played left and he when the ball went up high or he was driving his third shot he hits the ball about as hard as anyone so definitely a shotmaker kind of I would say that he made some mistakes in the soft game especially in the second game against so Beck and myself but talented player, the right side player was very solid, didn't do anything special, but had good hands made a lot of cross court Danks. And then Don Kenai kind of did his thing jumped in there. Few few earnings, few really nice speed ups and a lot of power when it went up high. So just just another talented team jumping in there and making some waves. It was cool to see,

Rob  8:15
ya know, I love it. I love like when you open the bracket, and you see like, what, who? And it's Yeah, I think it's one it's just good for the game. Right? And it's in two, it's like, you know, we always talk about, like, you like to be a top team, you need to be able to practice against top teams and see their stuff and see their disguises and see how they play. And, you know, they kind of they kind of showed that it they're not this isn't like the first time that they pickleball Right? Like they I pretty sure like their teaching pros and probably play quite a bit just don't play much on the pro circuit. But it was cool to see that they can come out and without seeing a ton of high level pickleball you know, in practice and still and still do really well and and get some nice ones.

Adam Stone  9:03
Right, and I browse through a NML article. And they mentioned that Don Kena played with a different partner and a PPA event and actually upset Ben Newell and Pat Smith. So there's some form of background there even though it's a very, very small tournament resume for those players. Yeah. But definitely it was Yeah, I mean that they were they were pretty much full fledged no names and then that that is a rarity of it. We always see you know, players that have been around for a little while taking steps forward, whether it's getting a better partner just improving their game, but this this was definitely out of nowhere. And I mean, Thomas Wilson and DJ young, phenomenal team ended up getting bronze. We know all about some of DJs results recently Thomas Wilson partnering up with AJ Kohler frequently to Get on the metal stand. So to beat that team handily in the quarterfinals is is very impressive. Much more impressive than you know, beating so back in myself

Rob  10:15
No, I think it was six and oh, and I was like, oh, whoa, which a you know, also at the same time as talented as DJ and Thomas are probably two of the most talented guys on tour in my opinion, in terms of just raw athletic ability. They can also have a pretty low floor in terms of if they're not if they're not vibing or intuit or they get frustrated a little bit. They're also a team that can that cannot manage that very well at times. So

Adam Stone  10:41
yes, no, I definitely agree with that. I think I saw somewhere online it was the DJ young experience. It can be it can be specs,

Rob  10:53
high highs, low lows.

Adam Stone  10:54
Yes, that's right. That's right. So the DJ young experience ladies and gentlemen and yeah, so let's we might as well talk a little bit more started off with the pro mins doubles Yeah, let me let me let me pull it up here as it's yeah, obviously not working for me. So yeah, like I was there for a lot of it. I watched a lot of it the day that I played it played and and commentated the Thursday singles in the Sunday championship Sunday. So I mentioned Thomas Wilson, and DJ on getting bronze. And then in the gold medal match on championship Sunday, we had deckle deco bar and JW Johnson coming through the opportunity bracket after losing to Andre De SQ and Dylan Frazier and the winner Bracket Final. So in that match, J W. And deco were able to force the game to 15 but ended up losing handily in that game to 15. And what really stood out to me was the really, really quality play of Dylan Frazier in that matchup. And, I mean, we know we know deckle we, I mean, we know all four players. And you know, we know Andre loves that left side, he often takes a lot of court on the left side, but by the end of that match, it was almost 5050 left to right, because Dylan was just playing so well on the right side, and really winning a lot of hands battles and playing it playing a great match.

Rob  12:22
Yeah, and I think one thing we've seen this year, I don't know if it's been talked about a lot. But you know, Andre, the past couple years, he's played very select few tournaments, right and stayed mainly kind of, in in Florida, where he lives. And this year, I think, you know, I saw him MLP and Newport and he was like, Yeah, I think I'm gonna play 20 to 23 tournaments this year, and like, whoa, like, that's that's a heavy schedule. But he's, he's going for it. He's playing a ton. And I think, you know, the rankings in the standings reflect that. I think he's, I think he's probably top five in the APB standings now. So getting a lot of like, a ton of solid results as much as he's playing. And he's and he's getting better, right, because he's actually getting more reps getting more tournament experience. And yeah, he's, he's having a great year. So shout out to Andre because, yeah, impressive stuff. And, and also, it's, you know, he's not he's not a young guy, either. I think he's probably close to my age and, and Stan fits and healthy and, and, yeah, playing good. Pickleball and, and yeah, Dylan Dylan had a hell of a weekend too, right?

Adam Stone  13:29
Yeah, big time stuff from Dylan. And yeah, just just touch a little bit on Andre. Yeah, you're exactly right. And he's, he's always had that all around game where he really maybe doesn't do anything spectacular, but really doesn't have a lot of weaknesses. The hand speeds find the solid soft stuff, fine, he can scramble as a big man to scramble and back up good in the, in the land of opportunity and, and all the way back at the baseline. So no real weaknesses from him and to see him commit to playing more and also having the fitness I mean, he probably went for 2530 Arenys you know, always had the intense footwork never looked to get fatigued at any at any moment in the match. So to play more and be more, you know, physically fit. You can see the results so good for him. Yeah,

Rob  14:23
for sure. So Dylan's weekend golden men's What else did he have he had

Adam Stone  14:30
he had a fourth place and singles and a very deep draw of goodness gracious 3638 players in a very deep singles draw so to get forth to there. You know, obviously little heartbreaking to get that fourth place I've had plenty of those to miss out on the stand. But to do that and then to get gold and mixed doubles with Anna bright as well. And to to you know, to play right side and men's play left side and mixed and to to know to Almost a metal in a deep singles field. Very impressive from the young buck out of Missouri to be to be a big threat and all three facets of the game.

Rob  15:10
Yeah, totally. And yeah, on that note, Jada little like obviously still a great weekend but but can't fell she fell short and and all those matches on Sunday right? So God yes, grab grab silver and all of them. So then you were there, what was kind of the What's your take on that?

Adam Stone  15:28
I don't think JW played his best. I mean, let's be clear. I said it on the stream as well. He's in three championship Sundays. He was in singles, mixed, and men's. But he was the bridesmaid and all three, and forcing games to 15 and all three events as well. So quick, quick mental fact check there. But, you know, phenomenal weekend to get to get three silvers and be on the medal stand on all three events. But I do think that he didn't play his best and I am not exactly sure why that is, this is Pickleball we all know, some days, you feel like you can't miss some days, you feel like you can't make a ball. So there's not always an exact reason, sometimes you just don't have your field there. So don't think he played that by any means. But definitely, I have seen him more locked in before and that can be a variety of reasons. I talk about it quite a bit as well as you know, you can have that, that that casual, smooth, you know, nothing feels difficult kind of vibe that JW has, but occasionally I do think that could lead leak into his footwork and his intensity out there. So why did while it is advantage for a lot of reasons. I think sometimes that lack of intensity and that calmness that that J dub shows in his personality could could possibly leak into some of that physical intensity with the footwork and in the preparation for his shots

Rob  17:03
come out a little flat occasionally. Right, right. Yeah, no, that's a that's a good point. And it's so in singles he lost to Fed is that right?

Adam Stone  17:12
Yes. And I did not know this. But after that match, I believe it was Kyle Yates who I passed by going to grab a water who who said that he was oh and 13 against JW Federico Is that so? I

Rob  17:32
fed had beaten J dub. I

Adam Stone  17:35
Kyle Kyle made it seem like it was a long long losing streak snapped there by Federico who, who J dub did come from the opportunity racket and did force that game to 15 but Federico too much. Really impressed with Federico, its intensity, very full, full physical commitment to all the points all the shots while he was out there, but also mentally, he was the quickest player to get to the line and be ready to serve. He was showing his opponents that he's not going anywhere. And it was really impressive to not only see how 100% he was for every point physically but mentally as well and he was rewarded with a big win in Chicago. Kudos to Federico you know

Rob  18:27
who getting to the line quickly to serve reminds me of who's that Ryan Sherry

Adam Stone  18:33
The Share Bear and you can say whatever you want to about share, bear but when he's out there, he's pretty mentally

Rob  18:41
tough as well. Once that once that once the ball is in play, he's really mentally tough.

Adam Stone  18:44
Yeah, man, he's

Rob  18:47
He will take His sweet ass

Adam Stone  18:50
for sure. I still remember him putting both hands up on the back fence a couple of times, you know just full fully panting fully trying to catch his breath. But yeah, you're right. So

Rob  19:00
is kicking the ball around chasing the ball can't pick it up Slippery little ball that thing

Adam Stone  19:05
ya know? So yeah, I remember that move and tennis, bounce it off my foot, for sure.

Rob  19:10
And load slowly to get to.

Adam Stone  19:14
Well, I mean, your shoes. I mean, your shoes are important. You got to keep them laced up properly.

Rob  19:21
And then, so in men's it was so Dylan Andre beat J dub and deckle I would say Jacob and Decker were they were the ones that I'm assuming. Right?

Adam Stone  19:33
Yeah, so they actually weren't they were but they weren't. They did the flip. So so they flipped for the one and to see there's a couple couple of changes in the drawers in terms of what side of the backdrop you go to and a couple of coin flips as well. And they talked about that with the player committee and to be honest with you, I should probably have more information on this considering my wife is on the player committee. But that's, that's, that's something that I'll have to I have to chat with her about as there was a couple differences in the drawers here in Chicago, as opposed to some of the previous AVPs.

Rob  20:12
Right. And so but with the J dub deckle, how did that what was your take on that final? And what that look like? And, and because, like I would if you know, I think the Vegas line would probably have Jaidev and DECOs favorites on

Adam Stone  20:26
that one? Death, I

Rob  20:28
would call I would call that a minor upset,

Adam Stone  20:30
ya know, on paper, I think you're absolutely right. I don't think there's any way to avoid putting deco and JW as the favorites in that match. They did not switch around. Neither team switched around at all it was it was a set lineup of Dylan Fraser on the right, Andre on the left and the same for JW and deca, with Jay W on the left and Deckel on the right. Really JW and his entire career has never consistently played right side and deckle has Yep, the first couple of years of our partnership. And I think they waffled back and forth a little bit in their first few tournaments. And now they've settled with right side deck or left side JW I thought deco played fine. Had some nice counters have some really nice scorpions where he where he drops low and and just kind of slaps that counter attack when Andre in front of him was speeding up. So yeah, I thought deco played fine. You know, nothing, he didn't do anything, you know, spectacular or take over the match. But it's very hard to do that on the right side. So JW was probably a little more inconsistent with the dinking than I've seen and just played just played Okay, didn't play poorly didn't play. Great. So that's what I saw with that matchup. And while Andre really took a lot of court to start, as I mentioned that they kind of went to a 5050 kind of partnership with Andre on the left and Dylan on the right and Dylan's backhand in the middle was very quick and he won several exchanges and had some really nice combinations. So yeah, that's that's pretty much what happened. I do think Dylan was probably the best player on the court in that matchup certainly certainly wouldn't I don't think I can call him the best player in general but for in this instance in this match I really believe that he was

Rob  22:23
Yeah, I think you know, like you said earlier for Dylan to go from right side men's to left side mixed and take on both that's that's that's not as easy as it seems. Being a being a really good I would consider done a really good right side player one of the probably a top tier in the game, purely because he he sits more continental grip. So he his back similar to me like, I like my backhand counters. So I like being on the right and those instances don't like my forehand dink very much but backhand counters, very similar to Dylan. That's kind of what we sit on. So if you catch Dylan on the right side on this forehand that face will be open sometimes and hold wholesale and long but if you're attacking metal into his backhand or his body he's you know, he's got some of the fastest hands of the game in that respect. And it's not going to work out very often but yeah, to see him have success on the right and men's and then also on the left and mixed is it's just shows how well rounded of a player he is. And he obviously moves really well. And especially for his size he's not he's not a huge guy, but he he moves very well laterally and and mixed covers a lot of core and you know with his hands he can initiate and, and clean stuff up pretty well. So big props to him and and Anna taking gold because they What's up, where are they? I think they were a little bit of a lower seat do let's check

Adam Stone  23:43
it out. Oh, why is why is this why it doesn't want to be honorable tournaments just not not doing it for me here on the iPad. I'm the iPad guy and I'm failing I apologize. We

Rob  23:54
need a third person that's just purely a fact checker for us. And you know, like we say whatever you want, and they they can we can have a little tally on the screen about how many times we've actually just made stuff up.

Adam Stone  24:04
The Joe Rogan guy Joe Rogan. Yeah, exactly. Can't we jam on? Yeah. And one last thing on Dylan. I do think that he is one of the best crab walkers in the game. So the crab walk for those who don't know is the lateral movement right at the kitchen line. Yeah. AJ Kohler very, very good with it. So you know you're not turning and running. So it's all shuffle and it's all lateral movement. And it's super important, especially in mixed doubles to keep the pressure on with those fourth six, eight shots. And really, also when you're when your partner or your for your female partners crosscourt dinking. That little crab walk over to the middle to be offensive is super important and great footwork from Dylan throughout the tournament.

Rob  24:53
And similar similar with Kohler. The one thing that exceptional crab law crews are susceptible to is the lob, because they're so good moving laterally, that they're usually focused on that and it's a little tougher to move to the back. So you can catch you can catch Kohler. I haven't seen as much with Dylan. But you can catch those guys with lobs pretty often. Which is ironic considering how much color loves,

Adam Stone  25:19
right and they're just so wide. So color colors, colors, lower body stance is about as wide as anyone. And like you said, you were you are giving up backward movement for better lateral movement. Yeah. And another small factor on that as well as neither one has an extensive tennis background. And non tennis players do not backpedal that and they don't move back. And they don't have as much power on their overheads. Yeah, so it's just a fact. While you know, neither one of them is, you know, has that extensive tennis background. They both cover their chest, their neck in their face about as much better than any tennis player can. So there's always these good little things right, exactly give and take this and that tennis players come around the ball into space much better, but they don't cover their bodies as well. And you see AJ Kohler and Dylan Frazier coverage, it's just right here and it's very impressive. So you're always giving and taking taking by doing these things and you know, just just as long as you know what you're giving and getting. There it is.

Rob  26:31
Yeah, I think they'd probably be okay with covering laterally as they do and and being a little susceptible to the lob because it's you know, the lateral movement and kitchen and mix especially super important.

Adam Stone  26:41
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, no, definitely that's pretty much how I saw that that men's doubles final. And you know, to two very good teams and I just think with all four of those players, there's just not there's not a lot to pick on. Yeah, there just isn't there's no real weaknesses out there. And you know, really high quality match just like most of them were throughout championship Sunday with with four games to 15

Rob  27:07
and how had the ladies go was the lady sad looking like so the

Adam Stone  27:11
ladies we had a shout out to Oh, yeah, so we had the ladies that with Andrea coupe. And Lauren stratman actually losing first round as the number one C two not what you would expect as a first round loss is a huge upset they ended up playing the cow and motos who who we know are very very solid team so it was kind of one of those situations of maybe a buy as a as a as a blessing and a curse. You know, it stops you from having more court time, which obviously is a huge deal with you know, so many players being so good but at the same time you kind of come in without a match and your opponent's come in already having a match under their belt and I think that's what we saw there with a couple was kind of Moto is winning and three and then coupe and stratmann coming all the way back through the opportunity bracket and actually capturing gold double dipping and a bright and Georgia Johnson.

Unknown Speaker  28:11
Interesting, yeah, and

Adam Stone  28:12
in that match another one to two to the to the game to 15 and coupe and TrackMan were able to get it done. I actually watched some of that first round, a cow a moto match and I don't believe Lauren Chapman played her best in that match. And she played much much better in the gold medal match. Obviously because they were able to double dip and O'Brien Georgia Johnson

Rob  28:38
we just think experience prevailed there.

Adam Stone  28:41
Yeah, I think so. And I actually you know was talking about how how coupe is of that foursome very much known as the more of the solid player and and a bride Georgia Johnson and Lauren stratman all fire are all known as as more peaks and valleys player where they have flashes of brilliance and then occasionally a few minutes of of inconsistencies creeping in and to be honest with you, I was very wrong because I think coupe was the most aggressive player on the court. So she was starting firefights. Lots of lot has been known the women's game lots of firefights, lots of extended exchanges and it was a very, very high level match and great job by strap men and coupe getting it done in the end. I think probably one of one of the big factors. I think Georgia Johnson did have a few extra unforced errors that were mixed in in that match that that were a big factor. But But Koopa coupe and stratmann did not miss a lot and their hands were very much on point.

Rob  29:52
Yeah, I was gonna say the same. I saw some of that one and I saw Georgia, Georgia just was missing a little bit more than than typical and it looks like she was Trying to pull the trigger a little, you know, at an opportune time some that sometimes and yeah, it just felt like coop coop pulling the trigger is it's fun. I don't get it all the time. She's usually like you said a rock and doesn't miss very much and you, you know there's on the men's side, you always talk about when when Steve Deacon was playing a lot. It's like you know exactly what you're gonna get from Steve Deacon when you play a tournament. You're not gonna, there's not gonna have flashes of brilliance. You just know he's gonna make a ton of thirds. He's got fast hands. He's gonna counter Well, he's gonna make a ton of dings. He's just, you know exactly what you're gonna get. Right? And I feel like coops coops similar in that respect on the women's side. Like, you know, she's gonna make a ton of balls. She's got good hands. She's gonna counter well, but you don't you don't see her initiating that often. So. So you know, developing the game? For sure.

Adam Stone  30:53
There's there's times. Yeah, yeah, there's offensive players, there's defensive players. But when you get in that happy spot where we can do a little bit of both, you know, that's when the situation calls for that. That really is the happy place and shout out and props to stratman as well. Because while coupe did a great job speeding up she often goes probably more so than any top level pro cross court with those speed ups and cross court with those counters, and it's very important for her partner to be ready. Because a lot of times when she you know, maybe doesn't hit her cross court, attacker counter exactly like she wants to that ball gets gets to her partner pretty quickly, and the good job by stratum and being ready in those firefights to handle that pace.

Rob  31:42
Yeah, that's it. That's a good point. Probably one that's overlooked by probably people watching. Just viewing is how important it is. Because you can you can attack and then your partner misses and you're like, Oh, well, that's on them. Nah, I mean, not always. Right. It's like not always. Yeah. So oftentimes, it's, you know, where you attack how you attack who you attack. And yeah, your partner and you have to be on the same page in terms of okay, this is like when you and I play, it's your like, go at him. I'm gonna be ready. Right? Like, it's just expectations.

Adam Stone  32:16
Yes, no, definitely. And you need to know who you're playing with. And, you know, sometimes you're playing with someone and you don't have to worry about the crosscourt attacks because they don't really do them. And then you need to, you need to know who your partner is, and, and you need to know who your opponents are. Because every situation is different. And that's really important. And yeah, coming all the way through from that first round loss. Great job by coop and stratmann to dig out that gold. Never easy to come back through at any point, especially when you lose first round.

Rob  32:48
And the added pressure of having to double dip.

Adam Stone  32:51
Yeah, no, definitely yeah, you know, it's two matches. You got to you got to win the two out of three and the 15. And it's it's just never easy.

Rob  32:59
It's never a good feeling either getting to the winners, you know, getting to that gold match knowing that you have a cushion so there's a ton of pressure on the winning team to write

Adam Stone  33:06
Yeah, yeah,

Rob  33:08
nobody you lose that person you're gonna the 15

Adam Stone  33:12
Yeah, and I was gonna give the shout out to Prof. And Asbury as well who earlier in the in the in the in the tournament had a really good opportunity to upset Georgia Johnson and O'Brien they were ahead in game three for a majority of the game and ended up losing lion 11 Nine at the end. What a what a difference a year makes. Correct Corinne and Hansberry a year ago would have been the favourites. And now they're very much the underdog. So almost almost got that. Got that upset. But you know, a lot of things change in one year. And you can see them being favourites to being underdogs, and almost caught them in the quarterfinals. So good job prof get them next time.

Rob  34:00
Next time. Prof that's what makes it fun, though, is that the like? It makes it exciting as viewers as well that the game is changing that rapidly, right? Because favorites are changing every week. So Oh,

Adam Stone  34:14
you're absolutely right. It's

Rob  34:15
just gonna keep happening. Even I think that probably a greater rate. Oh, for sure.

Adam Stone  34:19
I mean, just so we have the APP metro coming up this weekend. And last year I played with Jay delivers. And we ended up playing the kids JW and Dylan and it wasn't a we ended up losing in the bronze medal match. It wasn't a disaster by any means. But that was an upset. Yeah, that was a no no, I mean, that wasn't upset and I think most people would consider Jay and myself at that moment better than the first in some order the first and the second best men's doubles player on that court and JW and Dylan being the third and the fourth and I think as of right now, it's pretty clear cut that that's that that done Elon and J W it would be some combination of one and two in that and then it would be a clear cut number three and then Jay delivers would be a clear cut number for dense doubles player on that court. I hope Jays listening pair chest yeah their chest Yeah so one year you know one year big difference and and the rankings haven't told the whole story. Yes I believe we have. Of course we have no no we have to because it was just so good. So

Rob  35:28
no, but we told on here we told it somewhere else. I know we talked about it recently, but it was it on the podcast.

Adam Stone  35:33
I know I've talked about it recently. So I'm gonna guess it was on here.

Rob  35:37
It was probably on here. Short term memory. Not great.

Adam Stone  35:41
Not fantastic at all. So let's see here. Okay. Yeah, so we'll touch on the singles quickly because you know, singles just singles the same not as exciting as doubles. So we had Solemate DeVito is a really looking good out there catching Anna bright in the championship Sunday to take gold and a bright silver. And Rosie Johansson bronze, who is kind of a newer player had a really good tennis career at the University of Virginia, you have to actually be Anna bright earlier in the day, but lost to her and that in that second matchup, and Salah may defeat ze really doing a good job, she was almost a full fledged baseliner early in her career. And she's getting a little better feel at the kitchen line kind of mixing in her spots when to come forward. And she has a nice solid 595 10 wingspan up there she was she was around 250 in the world and singles and doubles, in tennis out of the country of Georgia. So a really solid player. And just a couple of months that I've seen her play, she has made some adjustments and some tweaks to her game. So she is very much a force on the single scene.

Rob  36:57
And I think that's probably under that was interesting. He said it's probably an underlooked aspect of women's singles is size and Hi, Greenspan, because like we talked about before, the purely the reason that women versus men like women don't always come in off their turn, you'll 99.9% see men come in off the return. And the reason women don't do that, typically is because well, one, the server has really good passing shots typically and to women are just typically smaller, they have shorter wingspan, they're not as tall, it's harder to cover balls at the kitchen line. But when you have somebody that's 595 10, good wingspan moves well, and can can have good reach of the kitchen line. Your like points are one of the kitchen period, you know if you can cover points or one of the kitchen so that the person staying back is typically going to lose that as long as the person at the kitchen has a decent wingspan. And solid may does. So I think that's going to be a little bit of the evolution in women's singles is seeing kind of the 595 10 511 women come in, that can still move well cover a lot of court. And I think singles will eventually be dominated by women like that.

Adam Stone  38:16
100% agree and the men it's a little bit different, because I could see more of a variety of shapes and sizes. More More common talking about length with the guys, as you see it in tennis you see some you know, you see some 510 Six foot guys with a lot of success. And you see a lot of six, four and six five guys with a lot of success too. And the women's there all right around six foot there. You don't see a row you don't really see a five, four girl very frequently out there anymore. Yeah, not anymore. And we saw that with a medalist two, we have Rosie Johansson at five, four. And you have Anna bride at five, seven. And we have Davide at 510. So we see a little bit of all of that reach throughout the medalists. And I think you're exactly right, Robert, it's I think that there's going to be a pretty prototypical type women's singles player moving forward. And if you're not say, maybe it just arbitrary cut off, you're not five, eight plus, you better have a really, really strong game because you are at a disadvantage.

Rob  39:25
You're gonna have to be really good at cat and mouse right? Like you're gonna have to be good at dropping and moving that that tall person around what do you don't think it's gonna be the same in the men's.

Adam Stone  39:38
I just think that, you know, the, the lower end of the men's is height wise is probably me, you know, like around the five, eight, and if 585 10 Say five, eight to 510 So I just think that the shorter guys at 510 still have a good shot of coming forward and being success. That's full agree the shorter the shorter girls are at 525354 That's a big difference.

Rob  40:05
I guess I guess my Yeah, I guess my question is let's say you have like a six foot guy you know and then let's call it a six foot five guy comes in super athletic. Do you see much of an advantage for like that six five guide for playing a six foot guy or is it pretty? Is it pretty neutral?

Adam Stone  40:23
So I would say slight advantage for the low end guy around six foot and the higher end guy of 6566 a slight advantage the lower end girl and the higher end girl I think is a big advantage if that makes sense at all. Yeah, so the range of of short to tall slight advantage for the guys big advantage for the girls in my opinion. Yes. Yeah. And then we'll Yeah, let's let's go ahead and move over to the Men's Pro singles and we talked about it briefly with with stacks. Ruud. ended up beating JW Johnson JW Johnson losing in the semi finals I believe to ignite a witch who was struggling physically very much throughout this single season. He did some vomiting and he he definitely you could tell in the bronze medal match where he played JW Johnson the second time he was very very fatigued and you know JW much less so was was the deciding factor in that match. Are we talking are we talking fitness or illness? Fitness we're talking fitness Yes. So it was it was legit fitness right so I did a couple interviews with him throughout the day and he mentioned in between interviews that he's you know back at school a little less time to fully commit to the to the fitness aspect which obviously is so huge especially in singles I talked about the 30 Something men's draw when you're playing No it's massive for your playing shake cousin meter second round or something who is a legit singles player and has a chance to beat anyone so it's not a which definitely was fading throughout that Singles Day and I have no idea if he would have be JW or not the second time but his his fitness kind of sealed his fate as as JW was was pretty much fresh as a daisy able to win that bronze medal match and move on to championship Sunday

Rob  42:18
Do you feel that that singles draws too big with the camera

Adam Stone  42:23
I feel like the doubles drawers too big so for sure the singles drawers too big and I just don't see how at some point they're not going to have some form of set rankings where top whatever amount of players get in and then they have a feed and bracket where they play the day before to maybe get the last eight guys or something like that because if we start getting into the 40s and we're playing this at one day I just don't see how it's possible

Unknown Speaker  42:55
Robert did I lose you

Adam Stone  43:00
yep yeah you're you're frozen buddy

Unknown Speaker  43:06
Robert

Adam Stone  43:11
I guess we'll take a short break guys get this technical Difficulties situated

Unknown Speaker  43:56
you back yeah what the fuck senior once why is this on here?

Rob  44:10
There's two of me in the Okay, that's

Adam Stone  44:18
just giving us some editing work there the dank last year again but

Unknown Speaker  44:44
okay Robert

Adam Stone  44:53
Well, I'm gonna go to the bathroom real fast.

Unknown Speaker  46:19
Oh oh yeah Robert

Adam Stone  46:26
my four shots of espresso are wearing off need this to continue

Unknown Speaker  46:34
dance or into pro mix data data data well

Adam Stone  47:12
this is unfortunate

Rob  47:54
so again stay up you son of a bitch

Unknown Speaker  48:20
okay

Adam Stone  48:27
get it situated there kid looks like now can you hear me out um I can now yes I can.

Rob  49:36
Alright, I'm going to go into a hotspot my Wi Fi at this fucking place all right anyway so we were saying draw sighs

Adam Stone  49:49
Oh yeah trial size. I just don't see how they're not going to have to get it get it situated in some capacity Yeah

Rob  49:58
30 Plus teams 40 plus teams is wild.

Adam Stone  50:01
Yeah, maybe you you know, if it starts getting into that 40s and 50s teams that want to sign up, maybe you do. I mean, I don't know just 24 for sure get in and then you play for eight spots of the of the you have some qualifying draw that you play for the final eight spots or something, something, something along those lines.

Rob  50:22
Yeah, you don't even have to lose revenue on it. Right? Like, just don't make it all the main draw like they do that don't don't they do like the shootout now ahead of time for some extra cash make that the qualities, right, yeah, play in that to earn your way into the main draw. But to play to have a draw of, you know, a drop drop 64 is, is just too big for pickleball. You know, like, we're talking about a one day event, we're not talking about a tennis tournament, that's over three or four days, you know what I mean? Like, we're talking about getting all these matches done in one day, which is kind of a wild thing coming from tennis and pickleball. You're like, oh, we play all of this, this whole tournament today? Like, all our matches today. Yeah. And we don't know what time we're gonna play him today. I know, for sure. And like, that's something needs to be cleaned up, in my opinion, it's still a mess, it's still. And I think we're going that way. And I think people are aware of it, it's just a matter of, you know, making the change and creating a new way to go about things.

Adam Stone  51:21
I agree completely Rob, and especially with that I was in the booth for singles. The bottom line is the first half of the day. Okay, so the drawers are so deep with so many quality players, that the first half of the day, the The matches were way more quality. By the end of the point, the points are shorter, people's legs are heavy. You know, like, there's barely any cat and mouse rallies because everyone's dead. So it's a good point. It's really good point. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously affecting the product and singles. And, you know, once we start having these tighter, longer points and doubles, I just don't see how the same things not going to happen a little bit at least doubles. So, you know, it's, it's, it's early on, you know, we've just really started to deal with this, you know, the last handful of months or, you know, the last whatever. So, definitely something that needs to get switched situated, whether it's to day events, or or a qualifying draw, or just some way to to cap, the length of the days and the amount of court hours that you're out there as a pro.

Rob  52:28
Yeah, I think you were getting into, like, you know, risking player's health to, especially on the single side, and when you have drawers that big? It's yeah, yeah, I don't think it's great. So hopefully, hopefully, we can fix that, you know, tighten up the drawers, make people earn their way into it, rather than just paying to get into a pro pro event. I think that's how it should be right. earn, earn your way in and, and make it worth it. And also, you know, you're not going to have, you know, top five top 10 Pros plan playing guys that literally just wanted to be on the court with them, you know, so they paid the 150 bucks to be in the event. You know, that's got to be removed to in my opinion.

Adam Stone  53:09
Yeah. And it's, you know, I think it's maybe for some, some period of time, it's, it's a it's a cool thing about the situation, but, you know, eventually you have to make the adjustment when things change. So I agree completely. I think that's just gonna have to be a thing of the past even though it, you know, might have been a cool aspect very early on, in this in the sport being, you know, a pro sport.

Rob  53:35
Yep. And I've been away from APB tournaments for a minute. But what is I know last year, there was a lot of a lot of frustration, at least from the pro players, whether it was voiced or not, I'm usually the one that voices that. I'm usually the one that's not afraid to say stuff, while other people don't want to really ruffle feathers. But it's no secret that, you know, I think having SR pros on the live stream is just, it's just not a good product to have on for pickleball. And also especially when you know you're you're you're making people wait for those matches on the life on the championship court, that kind of thing. What how have things changed this year? Our senior pros still a big feature on the ATP tour like what's the vibe and aspect now? Because I don't see as much of it on the live stream.

Adam Stone  54:22
Well, let's be clear. When it comes to that kind of things, this is a good cop bad cop situation. And I'm the good cop and I'm

Rob  54:34
the voice of reason.

Adam Stone  54:35
Yes. When it comes when it comes to controversial things. So yes, you know, that's that's been a calling card of of the AP from day one is you know, all inclusive. And and you know, having a good line of communication with the pro players but also having a senior pro player counsel. Yeah, so I definitely don't know all the details of that. But of course the pro the senior pros need to have some voice and what happens? I don't know if that should why? Because it's, it's, it's part of the sport. It's a huge a huge demographic of the sport is that age and while I still think obviously, most players even a lot of the older players would rather watch the the regular pros play there is there is some amount of people that do really enjoy watching players have their their same age compete. So I don't think it's a zero. But obviously you can look at the streams, the numbers and the people watching live and they're they're very much more into the pro play than the senior pro play.

Rob  55:46
Yeah, so I guess in my view, we're at a point in the sport where, you know, I just glanced at the live stream over the weekend, you had 2000 people watching, you know, watching in for for regular pro match, and it's very low. If we're talking grand scheme of like, we're where we think Pickleball is gonna go, you know, even if right now, I think they're estimating 5 million players playing pickleball as a participatory sport in America. You know, we're talking about 2000 people watching, you know, top level pickleball at the pro level on a live stream, it's so wildly low that I just imagined somebody, you know, tunes in for the first time and they see, they see senior pro pickleball. They're just sorry, I can't say senior pro senior pickleball. And, and that's their first taste of the sport at the highest level. And that's a shame in my opinion.

Adam Stone  56:43
No, I got you. I totally hear where you're coming from. Or you say I got you.

Rob  56:49
I totally, but I don't. But

Adam Stone  56:54
I mean, yeah, I get where you're coming from for sure. And I think APB has done a better job where they actually do not have that, basically, championship court one to be exclusively pro play, or almost exclusively pro play, and then they will have championship court to that has some kind of early play where they will mix and match senior Pro and regular Pro, and then they will show the senior pro metal matches on championship court too. So sure, I think it's it's, I think it's a solid way to go to include everyone, but also definitely, you know, put your your most important product, which is, you know, regular pro play at the forefront on championship court

Rob  57:39
one. And I'll be clear here, I don't think I don't think there's zero value in SR Pro. I guess my my argument is that it should not be taken away. Or shared, in a sense with, with the pros with a pro tour. So, in terms of prize money, you know, you look at I think Chicago was a 50k. I'm thinking what pros got 35 Maybe and SR pros got 15. I don't know what that exact split is. But I think that's the ballpark. And the way I see that is that's 15k That's, that's, you know, going to people that are already established in life that already have careers, you know, have had established careers for 30 years and are maybe retired and don't need the money. And they're doing it as a hobby. And that's that's honestly what it is for people that age. It's a it's a hobby. And meanwhile, you have 20 year olds struggling to survive on a week by week basis. And that's prize money that's being taken from people that actually need it to pursue their dreams and to pursue being a pro athlete and to turn this into a viable living.

Adam Stone  58:56
No, no, Rob, I think I think that's a great point. And for sure, it could be Yeah, so So say that percentage of prize pool is thrown fully into the pros, maybe you get a very talented player that decides to make the commitment to the game and could be a big asset, or maybe be a huge factor in the regular pro game. But because he has kind of paid attention to some prize pool and did a little bit of quick math. Maybe he decides he doesn't want to commit to it because it's just not quite worth it. So I do think that taking away from the pro game is very bad and almost all aspects. So to find that happy, perfect medium. I'm not sure what it is. But I think that it's it's viable to give them their place and not take away from Pro pickleball at the same time.

Rob  59:50
Well, I just think they need to be separated. So the same way when you look at a PPA price pool that it includes all of the all of the updates earns fees for the contracted players like that needs to be separated out to write, don't include that in your total prize purse. Because if I'm signing up and I'm not a contractor player, I don't actually that's actually not the prize purse that's up for winning. You know what I mean? That call it a quarter that money is already spoken for, and going to players already, so that's not the purse. So similar vein to APP. Like you need to you need a market. If you're going to market the Chicago Open, presented by Lexus, and put J dub and deco on the cover of that with a fit big 50k. Like, you can't have 15k of that it's actually 35k right or what I don't know the actual numbers, but you get my point, you're using the pros to market that. And they're getting a percentage, a smaller percentage of that my only point is separate them, right. Like if you want to have if you want to have a senior Pro to or have a senior Pro Tour, this is what their prize money is. But for you know, to market a tournament is 50k. And, and a percentage of that go to the pros and actually be up for grabs for pros. It's a little misleading. And I even saw an article that said, you know, I think it was maybe the Chicago newspaper like local Chicago newspaper that said, the winners gonna walk away with 50k Like, it's all like an obviously that reporter just didn't do their homework and, and look into it. But when you see that even people here in Hawaii are like, Oh, 50k purse, like you could you could have a great weekend. Like, um, you know, it's not your it's not indicated the winner here. It's 53 divided by a lot of events. Sure, sure. So I just feel like, you know, there needs to be and I'm not saying the APB is not being transparent. I think they're very transparent. I think, you know, out of the two tours, they they they do a phenomenal job in terms of in terms of transparency and explaining exactly what you win for each plays for each event. They do. Great. My point is that, I think it needs to be you know, if it's a 50k tournament, there needs to be 50k. to the pros.

Adam Stone  1:02:10
No, it's it's a good point. And I have no idea if there is possibly something in the works or maybe that is the master plan a year three years, whatever it is down the line to separate the two, but right now it is not separated. And I think it is somewhere in the ballpark of two to one Pro to senior Pro and that this is that's very rough estimate very rough estimate. So not not positive, but I could see that just like whatever golf and tennis, you know, are the easiest sports to go to in terms of, you know, progression, like Pickleball is doing to separate those tours and have have different tournaments and at different times in different venues and all that so I would imagine that it will get to that point. Eventually, if it continues, the sport continues to grow, which I'm almost certain that it will so we'll just have to have to monitor that and keep keep tabs on that with the tours and what kind of separation the pros and senior pros have. Yeah.

Rob  1:03:14
I love you senior pros.

Adam Stone  1:03:16
I heart seniors. Where's my shirt that Dave Furman was gonna give me? Yeah, for sure. I've seen Dave Furman was gonna give me a shirt that said I heard Sr. So I'm still waiting for that Dave if you're listening hooked me up. Yeah, the first couple of commentary gigs I had I did a lot of SR Pro and I do I do have love for them. But you know, it's a it's a different piece. It's a piece of the pie it's a different game and you know, who knows how that pies gonna get get divvied up it's it's always a point of contention and a work in progress.

Rob  1:03:49
Yeah, I just don't think you see it in any I don't want to go on this too long but I just You just don't see it in any other sports in terms of like I liked the inclusive aspect as well. Like that's great. But make it like make senior pro like Moneyball like entry fees are still expensive, right? Like like throw your money into a pot and let the winners take it and that's that's that and on the on the pro side you have the purse you know from from the money generated and that's the that's the true purse of the tournament for the pros.

Adam Stone  1:04:24
I like it I think you're right let's move on to something else let's let's know great talk rom but let's move on just it wasn't it wasn't Yeah. So let's let's touch on the pro mixed real fast. To wrap up our our recap of the Chicago open. So we had we had quite a few different teams actually. This tournament so we had we had Vivian David and Hunter Johnson. We had somoni Shark gene and Federico Staxx rude we had deckle bar and Jade cow Emoto just to name a few. I know I'm missing one or two there as well. All, but in the gold medal match, we had the Johnson siblings verse, Dylan Frazier and Anna brights, and they came up short in the game to 15, the Johnsons, kind of steamrolled through the main draw. And and we're eventually double dipped in that gold medal match. But yeah, so several several different matchups 100 Johnson and Vivian David ended up beating Federico stacks route and somoni Shawsheen. Early on, but neither of those teams were able to make it to the metal rounds. So, yeah, interesting to see the new matchups and the new teams,

Rob  1:05:40
not taking anything away from Hunter, you know, I think he just got picked up for MLP. Right? So, so big props to him. And he's obviously improving a ton. But I think it just goes to show like that mixed doubles match, it just goes to show. And we talked about a lot, you're you're strong as your female, right. And like having having a really strong female kind of outweighs like, you can have a lower level guy if you have a really strong female and still get results. So just shows like how strong VIV is. And yeah, I think that just kind of kind of proves the point when I saw it, because I think Hunter and Yates didn't have a great tournament, I think, maybe I'm wrong.

Adam Stone  1:06:21
No, you're exactly right. I believe they went over to and yeah, so let's, let's actually talk about that a little bit. Yeah, kind of, because we saw it in the gold medal match to the sibling pairing, and possibly a significant other pairing. So I think this happens a lot in pickleball. And I did not see it. But I think that the Johnson twins were a little at each other in their men's doubles, in terms of possibly their relationship and some some off court stuff leaking on court. And I think there was a little bickering going on between the two. So while I think as a sibling pair, obviously the Johnsons there is some advantages, and kind of some Sixth Sense stuff going on. It's also very difficult as well. So you know, JW in Georgia constantly together, I'm sure the Johnson twins together on a lot of time with another person. Yeah, a lot of time with another person you saw myself and Prof you know, having some really good results and then very much fading. You know, as as at the end of last year, and beginning of this one. So

Rob  1:07:30
anybody that plays pickleball out there, you guys all know how, like, it's Pickleball is an interesting sport, even more so than like, doubles tennis, where you're in such close proximity to somebody else and, and everything they do on the court affects you. And it's it's really difficult to vibe and find that happy balance of, you know, support. And also, you know, it's you just see a lot of conflict on pickleball courts at times, you see a lot of joy and a lot of happiness and a lot of camaraderie. But, man, when things go tough, like you're in the trenches with somebody, it can get hard.

Adam Stone  1:08:06
For sure, for sure. So I think there's something to be said to having your off court life and then having your own court life. And, you know, those two start blending together, it's not the easiest thing mentally to handle. So I know a lot of the people listening out there probably love to share that bond with their significant other, whether it's rec games, tournaments, whatever. So, you know, just wanted to bring that up that while it's, it's great, you kind of know where that player is going to be, you know, the intricacies and the ins and out of that person sometimes that that is actually detrimental. Once you get on the court. We see it with the Newman's you know, they, they know exactly where they are, they don't even have to call switches, sometimes the players right there and then they go to timeout and they're 400 yards away from each other they don't want they don't want to be near their their sibling at all. So, you know, just something that I saw a little bit in the gold medal match with the Johnsons. You know, it's tough. I mean, not only are they siblings, they're their kids. So to that that mental factor is so huge while they're obviously immensely physically talented. I've no doubt that that being together, practicing together being siblings, at times can be trying for them when they're on the court together.

Rob  1:09:21
They've played a fair amount of tournaments this year, too. It's a lot of pickleball

Adam Stone  1:09:25
man they have to be they have to be a little burned out like

Rob  1:09:28
yeah, I don't care how young you are like that happens. Yeah, taxing.

Adam Stone  1:09:32
Yeah, their kids, their kids, you know, the physically, you know, they're they're out there, they're playing there. And the thing is, is there you know, maybe six months ago, they were randomly losing, randomly going to and to in a tournament or randomly going maybe even one and two in a tournament a year ago now. Now they're running deep constantly. They're playing. They're playing for events, because they're playing three events and a championship Sunday. Yep, playing. They're playing PPAs they're playing a PPS they're playing ml pleased peas, they're playing it all. There has to be some mental burnout. Just like you said, Rob.

Rob  1:10:03
Yep. Which there's not a ton of breaks and pickleball. Really, I mean, you have an opportunity to play most weekends, right. And it feels like they're choosing to play most weekend. So be curious to see what schedules look like next year with all the tours and LP having a few more events that sounds like But if we're looking at I think, beginning of this year, I think we counted them out. And they're close to I don't know if it shape if it if it stood, stood like this, but I think there are 5050 tournaments between the APB and PPA I don't know if that actually played out. But even if it didn't play out the 50, it's still damn near 40 or 40. Plus. So that's just a lot of opportunities to play pickleball week in and week out. And, you know, it's not, it may not always be best for the long run to choose to play nearly every weekend.

Adam Stone  1:10:53
Yeah, like I said, especially when you're running deep, total, a whole different ballgame. I mean, I had, like I said, had some short days here when you're here in Chicago this last weekend. But I mean, when you're playing eight or 9am Till, you know, four to 7pm in that range. Yeah, even with not playing the last couple of matches of the tournament and then being on championship Sunday, or the last match of the tournament being on championship Sunday, it's still a ridiculously long day, and for four days in a row, and it has to has to be taxing whether you're 1519 or 40. It's it's it's just not something that you can play 100% you're best at all of these events when you're playing that many.

Rob  1:11:36
Yeah. Oh, totally. And I don't know if you had more to talk about Chicago, but neither here nor there. On that note of playing more tournaments, we got a PPA that's. So we have the Atlanta APP next weekend, as well as the Cincinnati PPA which is a Grand Slam, I believe. But the following weekend. So two weeks from now is at an Atlanta PPA. So you have the Atlanta APP this upcoming, and then the PPA comes into town and Atlanta the following. And I just took a quick look at the men's the Men's Pro draw and it looks like we have J dub and Dylan that'll stick around and play the PPA in Atlanta. So I know everybody out there, especially like everybody listening is going to be super pumped to see that. You know, it's always what we talked about in terms of there's not you know, J dubs not playing a lot of PPAs. And we have J dub and Dylan plan, you know, playing the PPA, so I'm assuming Jada is going to be playing singles and people are still stoked on that that then the Ben Johnson Jada match from the US Open and singles where, you know, Jacob had it on his racket or had it on his paddle for for much of the match. So I think you know, it's going to be in a couple of exciting weeks of pickleball coming up. And yeah, you kind of we kind of get to see the the APP and PPA collide again.

Adam Stone  1:12:50
Yeah, and that's, that's always fun. So yeah, I agree with you the upcoming weekend to have the double dip on a PP and a PPA, and that's let's scroll through. As you mentioned, we do have Dylan Dylan and J W. C.

Rob  1:13:04
R, which turned me looking at this is

Adam Stone  1:13:06
the PPA in Atlanta. So not this upcoming weekend. But basically around a week and a half. From today. We have AJ Kohler without a partner, I would imagine that will be Thomas Wilson. You have oh, the reemergence of Canada's finest Steve Deacon. The Beaver Do you think the beaver is jumping in action with Patrick Smith. So excited to see him back which has been I mean, it's been redacted. It's been a minute, like eight to 1218 months or something like that for fresh tank Do you can

Rob  1:13:41
maybe his last match was when Pat Smith and I played him and Colin at the PPA in Orlando. And Pat hits the ball pretty hard. hit a forehand that hit it somehow, like caught Steve right in the wrist. Game Two, I think. And Steve dropped his paddle. And then was just like, grimacing, gripping, it proceeds to, you know, retire from the match, pick up his paddle walk off the court. And it's just whaling on the whale in the paddle on the ground. Just just, I mean, letting it all out. So that might have been his last match. I'm not sure but yeah, one of the one of the better guys. Just one of my favorite guys on tour, super, super kind, super nice, great player excited to have him back on tour and really pumped to tune in and watch him play. It's been it's been a while and I would you know, I know. He's I know he's on the older side of the of the pro game, you know, late 40s. But do has dude has some of the fastest hands in the game. And which is I think an amazing thing about pickleball is that you can be in your 40s and still have some of the fastest hands in the game. I mean, how cool is that?

Adam Stone  1:14:53
Yeah, it absolutely is. And yeah, I mean this is I mean that was his nickname before Kansas finest or the beaver it was Steve. Steve podium Deacon he's just he's just a rock out there. Yeah, he he makes good decisions consistent makes good decisions kind of, you know one of those players we talk about all the time with that is the same level as some of the flashy guys he just he just does it in an even keel way without the peaks and valleys so really excited to see him back in there we have let's see here. We have Kalin Dawson not not teamed up with anyone and we have Julian Arnold and Federico Staxx route a little more known for their singles prowess. But both players improving their Singles Doubles game so what we'll see if they can, you know, maybe a long shot for them to metal but maybe maybe ruin someone's day, as I like to say.

Rob  1:15:49
So you had a list Kalin not listed with a partner in color not listed with a partner that was really fun partnership actually count on the right side, Kohler on the left, just lob city let's go

Adam Stone  1:16:00
and they and they've played together before so they played together a couple of times. Actually, actually, we ended up losing a wheat Hilton Hilton Head last year. You remember when we when you carried me to a medal after I'd vomited? Yeah, so God, maybe this happens to me more than

Unknown Speaker  1:16:20
I do remember that, that we beat J

Adam Stone  1:16:22
and Pat and I remember J about as pissed off as I've ever seen him because I was because you're

Rob  1:16:27
yakking like your whole body weight four minutes before the match.

Adam Stone  1:16:32
Just Yeah, well, we like I said, I watched back I thought I lit J up and I watched back through the match. And sure enough, it was you you doing most of the lighting. So either way to beat that team after you know, not obviously not being at 100% which, which was pretty cool. But we ended up losing to Kalin and Kohler, and the next match so yeah, we'll see if they get matched up or, or whatever the case may be. So that really looks at only to really one JW and Dylan maybe with an opportunity to win the tournament and then maybe maybe Federico and Julian couldn't can, you know, upset someone. I do believe that would be a long shot to jump metal though. So

Rob  1:17:12
that house Fed Cup house fed coming along. And in the doubles game, I didn't

Adam Stone  1:17:16
get to see him. Either the days that I was playing or the commentary days. I know that. It was unfortunate because I believe that Pablo Tellez had a personal issue, so they had to pull out of the men's straw. So he didn't get to play his full bracket in the men's and then it mixed. He played with somoni. And like I said, I know that they made it to the quarterfinals last to Hunter and Vivian and I'm not sure what happened after that they just did not make it to the medal rounds. So let's take a look at the mixed real fast just to see if there's anything funky going on there. And as we mentioned, this is the PPA following the APP. And peach tree classic PPA. That's exactly right. So we have Dylan not signed up with and mixed we have the classic PPA combos of Jay Devilliers. Jesse Irvine, AJ Kohler, Callie Smith, Matt and Lucy Riley and Catherine. So Riley not with his sister in this one. And then I'm not sure if this I've seen this matchup before Tyler Luke and Leia Janssen. Have you seen that matchup before?

Rob  1:18:31
Not that I remember. Yeah, to happen.

Adam Stone  1:18:34
Right. So and then we have Anna bright not signed up, either. I would imagine that Anna bright and Dylan are gonna get together for that one. And that could be interesting. Yeah, it'd be an interesting one to watch. I get some of the, you know, more established PPA teams. That fresh partnership, talented partnership of, of Dylan and Anna, possibly doing some damage in that bracket. Oh, no. Oh, we have Irina and Steve Deacon. Interesting. Let's see. Oh, Colin, John's and Lynn up and dig them at.

Rob  1:19:09
Okay. It'll be interesting to see. To see Stevie Deakin play some mixed. You know, you can I believe the mix game has changed a little bit. You know, it hasn't been very long. But Steve's always been, you know, not necessarily taking a ton of court moving a ton, just very solid. And you know, not very attackable and picks good spots to attack especially the female who's right in front of them to typically. But we have you know, you look at even like Dylan and Anna, like very young athletic team. It'll be interesting to see how CVD holds up and mixed with that style versus kind of the new style of, you know, athletic, aggressive and yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of fun storylines to take keep an eye on.

Adam Stone  1:19:56
For sure. Rob, and that's exactly what Steve is. He's more of a A 6'4" Mix guy, you know where he's not he's not taken three fourths of the court he just can't do it with some of his his movement and age so but he's got some great results and he had a lot of of teaming up with Katherine Parenteau you know, around at 18 months or two years ago, and they they made a lot of podiums, so So you're totally right in the fact that it has just gotten more and more athletic, especially on the MCS side. Let's see if a veteran MCs player has had a lot of results. But isn't that that physical presence? Let's see. Kinda kind of what kind of of tournament he can have. Being that kind of player

Rob  1:20:39
who's his partner in mixed.

Adam Stone  1:20:42
Irina Tarasenko. Okay. Yeah, yes. And then we have an O and here's an interesting matchup, Lacey Schneemann, who jumped in for MLP and have some really good results, but very much an unknown. She is pattering. I was gonna say Patrick Smith up with Patrick Smith. So she's, she's partnering up with Patrick Smith. That could be an interesting one we have Mary Brascia and Federico Staksrud. Okay, that could be interesting as well. My God, the kingdom teams just keep going. So that's 28 teams. couple of interesting ones there for mixed

Rob  1:21:19
and it's wildly mixed like mixes. You know, talk, we talk about the APP singles Philippian wildly deep, mixes so deep now to write like, there's so many good players. It's, you know, it's really tough out there. Let's see.

Adam Stone  1:21:33
I'm gonna look just briefly at the women's pro doubles for that event and see if anything interesting is there.

Rob  1:21:42
Yeah, I mean, I guess we'll have Anna playing was with somebody

Adam Stone  1:21:45
and a play with Jesse or Jesse. Okay. Yeah, of course. They've done a little a little bit of that. We have the classic at least John's and Dijon mustard, Megan Dijon mustard, Lucy and Callie Of course, Laya. And hath Rin we have. And that is about it. Oh, Schneemann and Russia. That could be an interesting and we have Irina signed up with no one. So Real. Only 14 teams signed up. And to be honest, a couple of the teams I have never heard of before. So it looks pretty standard on the women's side, but some interesting stuff on the men's and mixed for sure.

Rob  1:22:23
It what do we have to do to make make it more interesting, you know, like, just not a whole, like, it'll be interesting to watch some of the watch some of those matches, but it's like, it's it's pretty repetitive, to be honest. And you know, I wasn't around when this tournament happened in the past. Triple

Adam Stone  1:22:41
crowds say it wrong. You

Rob  1:22:42
knew exactly, yeah. Oh, I knew. Because I think and it's super important. I think it's super important to keep well, one for the players, right to be able to mix it up and play with different partners. And, you know, we've gotten pretty cool value out of MLP by seeing the matchups and stuff, but on a tournament level, to be able to play with multiple partners in the same event in multiple days. Super fun and super exciting to watch. Like people love that stuff.

Adam Stone  1:23:09
Yes, so what what my good pal Robert is saying is that a couple years ago, probably a few years ago, three plus years ago, they had a triple count Triple Crown tournament in Simi Valley, California, where you play gender doubles all three days and you cannot have the same partner on any of those days. I think true. I think that that is a great idea obviously not something that is going to be in every tournament thing but why not have a couple of times a year whether it's you know two tournaments on both tours or whatever the case may be to have that format where you get different looks you're not just you know beating your head against the wall with the same matchups you get different looks different story lines and I think that that would be a phenomenal idea and something to kind of you know, mix it up.

Rob  1:24:01
Ya know,

Adam Stone  1:24:03
it's one of my one of my aims to make it happen. Somebody's one of my one of my favorite

Rob  1:24:07
tournaments was certainly heard amazing things about it, like people people loved it. Yeah, for sure. So I like that idea.

Adam Stone  1:24:14
And you know, I gotta find you

Rob  1:24:17
a good a good comment from,  from, from a guy that talked about like the monotonous of some of the matchups that we have talked about something important while I find this.

Adam Stone  1:24:27
Oh, me me to talk about something. Yeah, no, no pressure. No pressure at all. You feel the pressure. Yeah. So I do feel the pressure. But yeah, that triple crown tournament has definitely got a place in my heart. Kind of got some of my first good partners there. And I just remember, you know, the, the differences, you know, it's just like, Oh, we've never seen anything like this before. And this turn this matchup we have, you know, someone who was always playing with the bat Has player now kind of dipping into the middle of the player pool? And so it kind of shows their versatility and if they can, or really on that level, or how much was their great partner helping them throughout these tournaments? Can't can they carry a lower player to a medal or whatever the case may be? So, you know, as as you mentioned earlier, we got for sure 40 Plus, if not 50 plus of these tournaments. And as this becomes more lucrative, and you have more players constantly playing together and setting up their schedules, you know, you know, year in advance plus, is there's a chance that it could get more and more monotonous and more and more consistent with the same matchups which can be good in some regards with rivalries, but I think overall is probably not awesome for the for the overall viewership out there.

Rob  1:25:51
Beautifully said. I found that I found the comment. So a Mac 316. And it's in relation to me posting a tweet about you know, pickleball should be a team based League, not a not a tennis STYLE tournament, right, a yearly thing. So he said, I've got an even better idea, let's make it so that one, so that the wonder for seeds are so stacked, that they are the only ones that play every single championship Sunday, the same exact teams will play each other dozens of times and know each other so well, that every point ends up playing through the same exact pattern. And that's ultimately the same 95% of the time, we will keep running these exact same combinations on the exact same court type with the exact same bowl until all the teams losing hate their partners and all the teams winning get visibly bored. We will also sign all the players to exclusive deals so we can trap them in this boring vortex for three years completely halting any other tour active and the other tour actively trying to grow the sport. The PPA probably.

Adam Stone  1:26:52
That's good. So say that's the name again. That's industry name.

Rob  1:26:56
That's a that's a world class comment. A Mac ama K 316.

Adam Stone  1:27:02
A pack that that makes me I recognize that screen name as a poker player being Oh, Ahmet mckeeva I believe it is

Rob  1:27:11
and he is a poker player. He's his profile is at a poker table.

Adam Stone  1:27:14
Oh, there you go. So I actually have been personally messaged by this by this guy, as I told you, there is a huge buzz in the poker community about pickleball. And so that is interesting that he kind of broke it down like a poker player in that comment when he was it's it's a very smart comment. So so that that is funny. So hopefully, if that guy's listening message me, I think it's Ahmed Makhija, I believe is his actual name. And that's a screen name. And he's been a poker player for a very long time. And I know he's a pickleball enthusiast so yeah, I mean he's he said it well, he said it well. It's kinda maybe we're not exactly in that vortex yet but we're creeping right up on it, aren't

Rob  1:27:58
we rob? We are Yeah, that's why that's why I think you know, variety variety is good that's why I think what MLP is doing is good. I think a triple crown tournament would be epic. I I like men's doubles as my favorite event. Would you say would you say most guys prefer men's doubles? Generally

Adam Stone  1:28:17
speaking? Well Rob You know what the best practice for mixed doubles is? men's doubles. One of my favorite quotes Yeah, one of the one of the one of my favorite quotes is well, it's by far my favorite and I'm obviously you know, a little physically limited with some some shots and some and some size and so I'm definitely a better men's player than mixed player. But I just I just like, I like the patterns and the chess match and the you know, everyone being pretty pretty equal on court in terms of you know, physicality and level and so I definitely prefer gender doubles to mixed but I'm a little biased because I'm just not that good at mixed.

Rob  1:29:04
I haven't I haven't spoken with any women about it. But would you say would you say most women also prefer gender doubles? Like what about Prof.

Adam Stone  1:29:13
Prof. proff definitely prefers gender doubles but she's better at gender doubles as well. She's had much much better results proffer super solid but you know occasionally can go on stretches of getting lit up kinda like myself so that is less likely to happen of course it can still happen and less likely to happen in gender than in mixed when she's playing a guy so she prefers it as well. And I would you know obviously haven't talked to everyone about this but I would be shocked if the percentage isn't higher of people that prefer gender doubles to mixed

Rob  1:29:48
Yeah, so I mean, if most players prefer it, some tournament director out there should at least do it. Yeah, have three have three days of Women's Gender doubles three days of men's gender doubles differ. partners every single day. How exciting and how fun would that be to break down? Imagine in a million blog posts on that they would have a field day. It'd be so fun.

Adam Stone  1:30:08
We would have a field day. Oh, everyone would have a field day. I can already I can already sent the dank making a nice little clip about this. reposting it and getting some buzz for this triple crown for both genders. Yeah,

Rob  1:30:23
it's gonna happen now that we've put it out in the universe. Adam, we're manifesting reality right now.

Adam Stone  1:30:28
Yes, that is that is true, Robert, and looks like up in my little left corner. We're creeping on 90 minutes here. I know we had a short break in there. But while this podcast often feels right, I think maybe ending this podcast soon would feel right as well. Rob, what do you think about that?

Rob  1:30:47
It feels right to me.

Adam Stone  1:30:50
But it's uh, yeah, great coverage there. And I wanted to mention also that we have talked about doing our personal rankings for some of the categories we're going to we're going to focus on two men doubles, focus on some women's doubles, do some mixed doubles and some singles. And I think that with our next episode, we might touch on a we're not going to do you know the top five rankings or the top 10 which is we going off? Yeah, we go and D which is often very chalky and very obvious. We're going to we're going to dig deep into 20 or 25 of some of the players and these categories and you can go as deep as you would like Robert and and that will be on tap for our next episode which we will jump on sometime next week. Night night