Rob and Stone deep dive into last weekend’s Tournament of Champions. Results, line calls, strategy and whether or not the trip to Brigham City is even worth it nowadays. Stone was part of a blockbuster trade between the Mad Drops and Jackrabbits. The boys break down the trade and analyze MLP roster construction. Get your notepads out pickleball fans, there’s a lot to take in here.

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Show Notes

(5:00) TOC Talk, the PPA is keeping TOC relevant
(9:45) Last minute pull outs have a large impact on the draw
(19:40) Line calls becoming an issue for one female pro
(25:04) Hunter Johnson’s breakout over some big names
(30:15) Vivienne David and Susannah Barr’s impressive run to bronze
(42:10) Pro level analysis of one of the most heated men’s doubles matches this year
(49:37) Matt Wright committing to (W)right side
(57:29) Adam Stone traded from Mad Drops to the JackRabbits
(1:01:00) Conflicts of interest and tampering might be the next headache for MLP (1:10:05) MLP outlook in 2023, 16 teams, full re-draft, 6 events
(1:13:10) MLP Team Construction, “Klitch looks like a genius”

Transcript

Rob  0:00
because you know why,

Adam Stone  0:00
why this feels right. It feels right

Rob  0:09
I mean, that makes sense.

Adam Stone  0:12
Okay, so we're off.

Rob  0:13
We're off. Finally, we've had we've had a few technical difficulties but but we're, we're here we're doing it we're doing it remote. Which you know, I don't always like but I feel like with you and I we can make it happen. But ideally these are done in person right? But that just means you have to come to Hawaii. Well, yeah,

Adam Stone  0:35
no, I think I think the what we're trying to say here is everything feels right but it does feel a little more right when we're in person. So and if that means traveling to Hawaii, then I might just have to do that.

Rob  0:49
Which you actually are going to do in December?

Adam Stone  0:52
Yes, December 10 through the 18th I believe and you're saying Hey,

Rob  0:55
be careful with your exact travel dates and arrangements people are going to be people are going to be like meeting you at the airport coming to see Adam stone care

Adam Stone  1:04
I think that's probably a risk I'm willing to take by saying that on the air I think I'm probably just

Rob  1:13
given your your moment to moment movements you gotta be real careful that stuff and practicable

Adam Stone  1:17
Yeah, for sure. Oh, and by the way, Robert, I don't believe that we can play Prescott.

Rob  1:25
That was going to be after Casa

Adam Stone  1:27
Casa Grande. And then Prescott and December and Prescott. I'm pretty sure that's how the locals say it so maybe someone can you know I mean I said it Prescott at first and then I heard local say Prescott and so I've been saying it Prescott ever since.

Rob  1:44
Weird. You know the the city you're from originally?

Adam Stone  1:51
Like what What city

Rob  1:52
is the city in Texas that you're from originally? Oh, Houston. Yeah. So you know, Georgia, the state of Georgia has a county in it. And guess how they say it? How Austin?

Adam Stone  2:04
How Austin and it spelled the same way. So Houston is spelled

Rob  2:07
exactly the same way. My God, Could you be any more Georgia I say Helston? Like you're a redneck and that hey, let's just call that Housden. Like what?

Adam Stone  2:19
What So where were you born in Georgia? I know you're a Georgia boy.

Rob  2:22
I was born in Augusta, you know, home, home in the home of the

Adam Stone  2:26
masters. Home and the masters.

Rob  2:29
That's not like a It's not like a It's not like a good thing because Augusta is gorgeous. at Augusta National outside of Augusta National. Good. It's not great. It's not great.

Adam Stone  2:42
Yeah, that's how I think of Baylor University. My sister went there. Waco, Texas and private school, right? Yeah. Baylor beautiful campus is great. But it is. It's outside. It's its own city within the city, that's for sure.

Rob  3:00
I went to I went to Samford University my freshman year, not not not like also private school. Like probably the most beautiful campus I've ever seen, like the landscaping is just unreal. And Birmingham, like it's in Homewood. So it's not super hard. But it's there's definitely stark contrast from all these private schools and you go outside the walls and it's like, Oh, sure.

Adam Stone  3:24
Yeah, yeah. For sure. They had a run in something. Are they good at a sport? Sanford? Basketball was at the NCAA tournament or something? I feel like I've seen that name somewhere. Hmm. I have no idea. Okay, fair enough. Very good. I

Rob  3:40
do like to say, you know, I went to Stanford, right? Yeah, there you go. Oh, Stan.

Adam Stone  3:47
Fair enough. Okay, so, Robert, what's on the agenda today? We'd like to keep it live without many much structure but what's on the agenda? There's got to be something

Rob  3:59
Well, let's let's first off welcome everybody for being being listening as a part of being a part joining us. On the infiltrator podcast. Dare I say the number one pickleball podcast in the world?

Adam Stone  4:15
That's quite a dare but let's let's roll with it. Yes. All right. So

Rob  4:19
I'm gonna intro every episode. Dare I say your podcasts in the world? That's not

Adam Stone  4:25
much of a dare. But

Rob  4:29
today, we're I mean, we can go over a lot of stuff. The tournament champions just happened to Yossi and Brigham City Utah. We're just talking about that and that used to be considered one of the quote unquote majors in pickleball. And I think after last year is last year was my first time playing it and I was like, you know Brigham, this this this place is in the middle of nowhere. There's no really like amenities, restaurants, anything out there. It's it's what is like Hour over an hour from Salt Lake north.

Adam Stone  5:03
Correct. So they actually used to have the tournament in Ogden, and they moved into Brigham City several years ago. So Ogden is still pretty connected to Salt Lake geographically and whatever. And Brigham is definitely its own place. And it's I think it is a little bit over an hour north of Salt Lake.

Rob  5:22
Yeah, and I mean, it is beautiful, right? It's like well, you know, all things considered it's you got a nice mountainous backdrop. It's nice. But it's just it's it's a pain in the ass to get too and, and all that. And I remember last year, like the buzz from players that didn't play this year, but last year, and I don't you didn't play this year either. But last year, it was, why do we come to this tournament, we're not going to come back to this. This is like, it's not fun. It's, it used to be good. But now it's nothing. And then I think, even heard some rumblings from the PPA squad of like, you know, we're thinking about this is last year, we're thinking about partnering with TOC. Should we do that? And I think you know, the player consensus was like, No, we don't want to come back here. Why would you do that? So would I so I think PPA kind of like kind of saved TOC in a sense, right? Because I think if TOC is not affiliated with the PPA or any of the tours that most players would not have opted to play it.

Adam Stone  6:34
Yeah, no, for sure. So there's just something about even if it's just an hour, an hour and a half. We're playing all these tournaments flying somewhere and then having to drive once you get there. It's the same thing with St. George. Beautiful place love St. George. But it that's a two hour drive from Vegas. So stop being ridiculous and flying to St. George. Yeah, no,

Rob  6:56
that's right. That's right. So that just make a an extra $700.

Adam Stone  7:00
Right. Yeah. So no, there's no question about that, that there was some rumblings of that. Obviously, three or four years ago, you didn't have the options that you do now in terms of tournament play, and how many tournaments there are, you just kind of had to roll with what was available. So the fact that there's so many options a little bit more difficult to get to Brigham City, not a thriving metropolis, that's for sure. They do have a nice Chinese buffet. But there's not a whole lot of options, especially if there's a rain delay or you get done with your make a deep run in a bracket, you might not be able to get a good dinner, you might have to go to Taco Bell or something like that. So definitely, it's Brigham City a little disconnected from a main center, main area, main city. So there's, there's some things not to like from that regard. But the history of the tournament. They have a great tournament director and Kyle Klein there's there's a really nice vibe, they're they're accommodating to the players, you can usually get some housing the community helps a lot. And so that's that's much appreciated. And and you know, it was one of the bigger one of the first if not the first prize money tournaments. From John gola. Golo. I believe Gu L. L. O is how you say it. So. Yeah, so it's a it's a contrast, because I remember Mills legend of the game Mills Miller, you know, was I had mentioned that I might take it off my schedule after last year. And you know, he was, Oh, you got to play TOC. You know, it means so much. There's so much prestige and whatever, whatever else that goes along with it. So I was a little torn on whether it's a play or not. But, you know,

Rob  8:43
is that still the case?

Adam Stone  8:45
Uh, less for sure. I mean, I think it was a similar situation, if some of the more old school players remember the Grand Canyon State Games. Early on, there was a Grand Canyon State Games tournament, and there was a lot of prestige with it a lot. Almost all the top pros play. This was five or six years ago, and then it just kind of faded. And I kind of think Tournament of Champions is probably in a similar, similar stage to that tournament.

Rob  9:14
But it's got PPA on its side, which is right now. Right? It loses the prestige maybe and, and it's, I don't Is it a major would then

Adam Stone  9:25
it was the third major.

Rob  9:27
But is it now in terms of like how the tours structure their points? Like you know what I mean? Like, is it considered a major now or a Grand Slam?

Adam Stone  9:36
That's a great question.

Rob  9:37
I know. No, what's crazy, Adam, is that we don't know whether or not that tournaments a Grand Slam. We have pro players that don't know what the Grand Slam is

Adam Stone  9:46
which Sure. Like,

Rob  9:49
which goes back to kind of like this rant I went on about like we're trying to emulate these tennis tours, but there's no history or person th unless unless we went to like unless truly it was like US Open nationals TOC and maybe one other grand slam that one other event that we make a grand slam. But if we were going to use kind of tennis as the, as the guiding as a guidepost of what to do with pickleball tours like to see us open to Nationals and one other should be the grand slams, right. You can't you can't come in as a new tour and just say, oh, Atlanta PPA, but this is going to be a Grand Slam. Yet there's no like there's no history or prestige or like any understanding that it's even a Grand Slam. So yeah, I don't. It's hard. It's it's hard to see where it's gonna go. But I don't like the idea of trying to create everything from scratch and try to build prestige without there being any history behind it. You know what I mean?

Adam Stone  10:53
No, no, I totally get that. And I think as of right now, in terms of in terms of the point structure, I think it's world pickleball rankings. I believe that's right that the AP uses but it's US Open nationals, the New York tournament, the Vegas PPA championships. And I think there might be one more but I'm not positive on that. And those are the biggest point tournaments considered considered the majors say that again, Pro. And the Atlanta PPA, there you go. So prof chiming in from the peanut gallery as she likes to.

Rob  11:31
Prof once we get once we get your setup, we can have we can have all three of us on here. And we'll just really go at it. Profit I can talk about your day to day issues and what's going on in your life. And what you need to work on to improve as a person is

Adam Stone  11:42
she just got a frickin dry erase board for the for the kitchen. And she has like, she has a regular calendar with specific things for both of us on each of the days. And then she has on the right side. There's just a list that says Adams chores and why is it chores what does it say? Prof. Oh, it's my to do list. It's my to do list and chores. She does. She does not. She does not have a to do list but I do so I find I find that very interesting. And it's gonna be it's gonna be a while before all three of us are on this pod because I don't like being that third wheel.

Rob  12:20
We just like lifting you up. Yeah,

Adam Stone  12:23
that's exactly what you guys do. Lift me up. I'll tell you what. It does not feel feel like

Rob  12:31
that. All right. See Results.

Adam Stone  12:36
Okay, yeah. Okay, I got my trusty little iPad here. We're gonna go through some of the drawers here. What do I have pulled up first? Oh, we have pro women's singles. So first off, Robert. We have two somewhat interesting pull outs. We have Anna bright and Kelly Smith both pulling out of the women's pro singles draw.

Rob  13:00
I just, I just You are in my my, my 14 year old self is laughing at pullouts.

Adam Stone  13:09
Yeah, I don't what what's the what's the deal? You're, you're still not catching? No, no, no, no.

Unknown Speaker  13:18
Continue.

Adam Stone  13:20
Okay, yeah, let's do that. So what what do you know exactly how it works in terms of when the tournament finds out. You pull you pull out in the in the redoing of a draw based based on that. Do you have any idea how that works? Because I find this happening a lot. I'm someone who's had to pull out multiple times for physical issues or whatever. Yeah, always. So I always try to let the TD know tournament director know as soon as possible. But it seems like a lot of times the draw stays the same. They have they have a withdrawal and the seedings Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. I won't, so I won't be so so if I tell them at like, say three or 4pm the previous day. They used to be able to switch it and I feel like maybe the last time or two that I did pull out. They weren't able to. I don't know. So I should probably know that. But I do not so because it really messes up the draw with the seedings and everything when when a highly ranked player pulls out and they still play the draw as is as opposed to starting a fresh draw. So

Rob  14:28
yeah, I don't understand why it's like why that's such a challenge, right? It's like the drawers. I've seen drawers adjusted. Morning of sometimes. There's a there's a tournament. I don't remember. It was mixed. It was mixed in. It was at Newport at some point. But we were playing our first round match. It was me oh it was Megan. Megan she Handys on no was like our first like maybe her first tournament ever. We were supposed to play I think bracha and Kohler, and we're out work. And we're like, Dude, we're like, deep into the first game. It's like eight, eight or something. And then oh, and then I think Connor are like Pardo or Ogden comes over. And like, oh, we need to bring you guys in the drawers adjusted. I'm like, we're in the middle of laying our first round match. What do you mean the drawers adjusted? And then like we had a different first round opponent, like they changed the draw after we had already started our first round match. Oh, yeah, dude. Oh, yeah.

Adam Stone  15:37
Real. This is real. Oh,

Rob  15:39
yeah, this is real. So yeah, I don't know. And then that was it was exact same reason somebody had somebody had pulled out morning, have it affected the seedings. And then they they adjusted it that that moment. So what do you feel like is the correct answer, like adjust? No. drawers and brackets up to like, let's call it midnight the night before?

Adam Stone  16:03
Yes, I think for sure. You know, obviously, like morning of it gets dicey, even if it is whatever, nine or 10am Start and it's hard to adjust it at that point. But there has to be, I think there has to be a cut off the night before where if the tournament director gets that information they have they have to put a fresh draw and I mean, we're talking about Kelly Smith and and up right here. I mean, that's I don't know what their exact seeds, but those are two very much contenders and the women's singles draw, that's obviously going to affect a lot of what's happening if those two aren't playing. And as we see,

Rob  16:38
so they were listed in the draw and then just they had walkovers for the Republicans.

Adam Stone  16:44
Yeah, so what blue PEGASE blue pegasus Washington advanced because Callie pulled out and then and then play Irina next round. And then there was Ali Phillips, who I think actually is a local kind of younger girl maybe like around 20 years old or so. And she got Oh, she got to walk over as well. So and O'Brien was the sixth seed. Kelly Smith was before seat so I think you have to if you know that information, you have to put out a fresh draw with with that. I mean even if it even if they're not even seated that high. This is an example of they are seated that high. So for sure, but I think you need to do it either way.

Rob  17:23
And singles was was on. So this term, it's it's Utah, so they that championship Saturday, right. So single started on Wednesday, and then mix Thursday, gender Friday Championship Saturday, Saturday. So singles is the first event of the tournament. Those are you said it was Kelly Smith and who? Kelly Smith and Anna bright. Okay, so Kelly Smith contracted player. I feel like there's no reason they should they should like it should be a surprise that she's not playing unless you just literally didn't tell anybody which I that seems unlikely. Sure. So it seems like they would they would have that information. It's not like Anna and Callie just didn't show up Wednesday morning, right?

Adam Stone  18:08
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I can't I mean, I can't imagine that. That's possible. But I can't imagine that's the case either. So I totally agree with that. Yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying to look here and see it see what it affects. So if you take Callie out as the force See, that puts Irina in the four seat and you take and a bride out. So that changes everything. So that goes from Salome Davide Planned Parenthood to being up in the top half, playing Irina in the four or five matchup and the winner of that plays and Elise I mean this these are huge, huge thing. Yeah, that are affected by by by the draw. So let's see here. Yeah, so solo made Davide. I mean, she's obviously legit. So she's kind of yeah, she's kind of fresh but her groundstrokes are ridiculously good. And to move her to a different half of the draw is obviously a huge factor in the in the whole tournament. So definitely. And she's Yeah, unfortunately, I was watching not all but in and out throughout the throughout the days, relaxing and doing some you relaxing, some some rehab of calf raises of some sort. Jesus, you weren't lying, doing 1000 reps is difficult. Are you doing a ton? Yeah, I'm doing a ton. So time consuming, time consuming anyway, so I watched a lot of the pickleball and unfortunately, there is some very funny chat but kind of ruthless chat as well. So they were they were not happy with the line calls. They were not happy with it. And I think that there was an issue in the previous tournament with Georgia Johnson and I think Mama Bear Julie Johnson might have had some words from the back of the court too, while I while she was playing Georgia. So unfortunately It just see them but

Rob  20:01
it is but I kind of like I kind of liked that about pickleball in terms of like, that shit runs rampant in like tennis, you know, like, oh, you can do it and you can get away with it and you can keep doing it and people just don't care. But like we've talked about this a lot like all in all pickleball most most people in pickleball and profitable are super fair, like they call lines cleanly give the benefit of the doubt they don't There aren't many blatant hooks there's some but there's not many and the fact that like somebody is coming in and like doing some blatant hooks in my opinion like like it's it's some of them aren't even like close right so for for I think for people to defend like to come in and like say that's not okay and to actually throw you know, throw a fuss about it is good because it's hopefully going to deter that behavior. And honestly, like with all the live streaming, it's like you have nowhere to hide anymore yeah, you can't make these calls and expect zero repercussions like people can see it and people aren't people aren't and people don't like people that cheat. So

Adam Stone  21:13
know for sure I totally agree with you that it runs rampant and tennis and there's just so many even like high level tennis tournaments where you don't have a referee per court and you're on the side courts just ripping people or if there is is chaired umpire you can always you know, take one on the first line line or whatever. So it's tough to see a couple of these calls happening with the two rep system to which is no kinda kinda crazy. What what one rep is in a very tough spot because they're looking at feet and kitchen, it's almost impossible but to have two reps, where one isn't even focus, their main priority be the kitchen and to see that these calls happen and not be overruled is a little frustrating for sure.

Rob  21:54
I've said it a million times we need to like, well, one, even for even for football, it's the refs are in a bad spot to actually be able to see them especially like if if let's say, I'm on the near side and somebody's earning on my side. I can't see the back of their foot on the inside of the line. You know, it's completely shielded, you can't see Sure. Like, I think I think we have to have chair umpires we have to give them a better look from from higher up to where you can actually look down on a lot of the stuff and have a clear view, especially for line calls, like arrest standing at just normal height. It's it's so hard to see line calls, especially on the far side of the court when you're that low. The angle is just not good enough to be able to determine whether it was in or out. So I think I think chair umpires is still a thing I know it creates a lot of logistics, issues getting chairs everywhere, but most of these facilities or tennis facilities, they probably have chairs, like available. One thing that I saw at the at TOC that I think a little bit of a scary precedent to set. I believe it was with layup I think it was TOC. I just remember seeing this match it was with layup Janssen and I think Salah May and I think layup called like she requested line judges.

Adam Stone  23:18
Oh yeah, I saw that. That's exactly it was TOC. And they came out before the match even started and had four line judges from the request from layup from a previous match. I believe I believe it was Catherine on an outer court having issues with Salome and layup and Catherine I believe her partner so I think Catherine I this is speculation probably told Leah she had issues and then Leah went into that match with lime judges there. So go continue. Continue. Go ahead.

Rob  23:48
Yeah, so I Okay, I want I didn't realize it was before the match. I thought it was I thought it happened mid match. But regardless of player requesting line judges is a little bit of a scary precedent to set in terms of like, when do you say yes? When do you say no? Do you do it situationally based on who that person is playing in their reputation? Like that's a very subjective, right? It's like, okay, so now you you accept that request from layup but are you going to accept that request for me if I want a line judge for my pro singles match? You know, it's just like a weird thing to do. And usually, what surprised me the most was that like, you had like, I think you said what for like they were on each line? I believe it was I believe it was four total? Yes. Yeah. Usually, usually you'll have like, okay, an extra set of eyes. So you have instead of you know, you'll have somebody just watching lines, you won't have actual line judges lining up when you don't have one that's not like what pro matches do like you don't have that. So that just felt just felt strange to me and a little probably, I don't know, preferential treatment to the PPA players which you know, I get it, they're signed PBA players and you want to you want to protect them and give them you know, every kind of benefit. But at the same time, I feel like these tournaments, you have to you have to be equal opportunity. And it's just a weird precedent to set when, you know, they probably wouldn't have accepted that request, if, let's say Solemate did it. And one of the requests for for layup, you know,

Adam Stone  25:24
there's just, there just can't I mean, we've seen it from MLP, there just cannot be gray area. If there if there if there is any form of gray area, there's going to be some form of uproar, or someone's going to take advantage or they're gonna, yeah, try try to find that little loophole and make it bigger. So it's a gray area is just unacceptable. So there just has to be something black and white on paper about. I mean, that's it. It's a delicate with the line calls, like what what exactly how do you make that black and white? Well, I thought that's what the challenge system was for. Yeah, right. Right. Right. So yeah, it is interesting that you bring that up. I totally forgot about that, that that happened. And I actually think it's interesting that it happened pre match as well. It was not during if I could I could be wrong about this. Like I said, I was in and out watching throughout the day, but I do believe that was pre match. And I think that that is pretty interesting. Actually.

Rob  26:20
Notice it is because yeah, like again, President set. Go request your line judges people before the match. They have to grant it. Yeah, right. There

Adam Stone  26:32
you go. But don't don't start this. Come on. Come on, you need to you need a month or two off from any form of drama or any form of any form of rules issues. Okay. So yes, I

Rob  26:45
do I need a break. Okay, so that I can take other people on, you know,

Adam Stone  26:48
fair enough. All right. I'll give you that. Okay, so that was man that was just women singles. Let's let's let's scratch that. And we'll move over to pro men single Well,

Rob  26:57
no, only one right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sorry. I

Adam Stone  26:59
just exited out Anneli one who did she beat in the bed she she'd be layup and it wasn't three games. And I was in 3d printing. pretty routine. Three games. Yeah, three out of five, three out of five. So three games was not the split. So we got the fellas here. And I would guess that the big. The big kind of net but maybe not totally surprising, but definitely a little surprising is Hunter Johnson had a nice run. He beat Tyson McGuffin in the second round, and ended up coming all the way back through after losing to baby dill in the quarterfinals. He came all the way back through to get a bronze medal. So he had a big fit, big win in the second round and then came all the way back through and I'll check it out here but I have no doubt if he came all the way back through to get bronze after losing orders he beat some players

Rob  27:49
may take down in the bronze match. Jocelyn, is that right? Okay, so

Adam Stone  27:52
let's see here. So he beats Ryan Sheree. 1510 That's a good beat. He beat stacks rude 1511 That's legit. And then he beats J delivers 1111 Oh, and the third. So it went three and the bronze medal match. But he won 11 Oh, and the third. So that's that's big time stuff from Hunter. I know. He's had a couple solid wins and doubles and singles but never really translated that to hardware.

Rob  28:24
He beat up J dub Right? Like earlier? Can APPC

Adam Stone  28:27
I think I think that might be right.

Rob  28:29
I think that might be right. So he knew that it was there. But this is a good breakthrough for him.

Adam Stone  28:33
Right? So not only did he beat a couple quality players, he also got some hardware as well. So that's great job by Hunter. No doubt about it. I commentated a couple of his matches on the Singles Day. So it was cool to see. And yeah, I mean, I mean you beat beat Sherry And you beat stacks route and then you beat delivers back to back to back. It's that's pretty legit.

Rob  28:54
Yeah, and that's this is, you know, kind of a testament to the, like Hunter and Yeates twins believe they're twins. Yes, they are. Yeah, so good. Like, decently highly ranked, doubles players, right. And tennis, I believe was the case. And kind of seeing like the transition, like the transition from tennis to pickleball and singles can happen quick. Like, obviously, doubles is much more nuanced. But you can see you can see these guys come in and, and get good singles results quickly. So I think that's just going to continue to happen. I think singles is going to be super deep. It's just going to make me want to play less and less. Like the whole draws good now. Yeah,

Adam Stone  29:39
totally. Totally. I talked about those exact same things on the live stream, you know, it's like those those days of three and one, two, and one your first few matches are long, long gone, so you better be ready to grind the whole time so and Hunter. He's kind of in that annoying group of super Like effortless power and effortless movement, kinda with Ignacio which, and Thomas Wilson those guys that are just super smooth and you know nothing, nothing looks difficult and, you know, just like anyone else sometimes those guys plateau and only get a little bit better but if you're looking for someone who really has a sky high ceiling it's going to one of those guys with the easy cord coverage and the easy power is often one of those players that does skyrocket.

Rob  30:28
Yeah, agree. And yes, shout out. So Hunter and Yates are I think New Braunfels, which were Thomas Watson live. So I think they practice together some, but also close to San Marcos, Texas, which is where you and I have spent a lot of time with Christina and Walter Dorman. So for sure, John Johnsons have come through the just another graduate of the Academy. We talked. Yeah, for

Adam Stone  30:51
sure. And I think that they're, they're both the twins. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I keep in being on the same MLB MLP team, I keep in touch with VIP David quite a bit. And so I think that they've been doing some, some practice sessions at Dreamland. And I think Hunter and Vivian have a handful of tournaments as well. I don't know if that's the end of this year, beginning of next year. So, you know, as he obviously continues to get better and possibly get some better tournament partners for the tournaments as well. We'll see if he can be a little more consistent. Making a run in the last, you know, four or five, six spots, possibly meddling as well.

Rob  31:30
Always thought this was like, it's weird for twins, right? It's like, like, is Yates like, annoyed? Like, why is he like, why is he meddling? Like,

Adam Stone  31:40
well, I know what I mean. It's like, it's totally, I think at the New Jersey open, Hunter beat Yeates. So he got pretty deep and they're like the fifth sixth, fifth sixth spot match or something and ended up beating Yeah, it's like 1816 or something like that. So no, no, totally. There's that. There's that probably slight annoying.

Rob  31:59
I beat you and beat you in practice every day. How are you getting these results? Yeah, for sure.

Adam Stone  32:02
It's kind of like you know, like when I I'm not playing near as much with Deckel and then that first match that first tournament deck was playing with J dub and they lose they don't they don't get they don't medal and they lose to all too often someone no offense to all toffee are very good player all tough, but, you know, I'm just kind of have that smirk on my face. Like oh, deco can't win without me what the hell so? So I think I think everyone can't help but have those thoughts occasionally. Yeah, they they seem pretty tight. And I know they're pulling for each other. But I think that it was probably something they're like, What the hell? Why? Why? Why is it that me? Why not me?

Rob  32:40
So yeah, so and then and then. Yeah, big props to Dylan on championships on day two. That's a that's a good result to get through the winner's bracket to get there. Especially dude, it's wild. He like, we see all these tennis guys coming in high level tennis guys. And, and baby Dale has zero tennis background. Which is essential. Interesting, right? Because people are always like, Oh, do you have a racquet sports background? And you know, Dylan's gonna say no, but Dylan's also been playing pickleball since probably the same age that I started playing tennis.

Adam Stone  33:12
You know what I mean? Oh, he's been playing for 10 or 11 years.

Rob  33:15
That's what I'm saying. So I'm still like that. Yeah. So it's like, it doesn't matter if you play tennis. He's been playing pickleball for so long that yes, he does have a racquet sports background. It's pickleball.

Adam Stone  33:26
I mean, for someone like me or you, you mid 30s? Me 40. You know, having that racquet sport background is huge. Him being 20 or 21. And having played for 10 or 11 years, it's a completely different situation. Yeah, completely different situation. Still Still cool, though, because you're basically playing, basically playing tennis on a mini court in singles, you know, so very cool to see him competing with these guys that actually had, you know, ATP points and ATP rankings. So very cool. Brought brought that up on the on the stream as well. You know, I'm not sure.

Rob  33:59
You're just doing a bunch of shameless plugs about your commentary on the stream.

Adam Stone  34:02
Oh, yeah. No, that's too. That's, that's, well, I'm just, I mean, it's kind of a similar situation here. We're just talking nonsense. That's what I do on the stream. So we're talking nonsense on the podcast. So there's a lot of overlap there. But let me live my life. Come on, man. So about what let's just do one more plug. So I think what I'm going to start doing is, is do the commentary on the APS for Thursday. And if I don't make championship Sunday, do it then and then play. That's why it'd be far and few between Yeah, like 90 plus percent. I'll be on championship Sunday, of course. So. So yeah. So that's, I'm looking forward to that. So a little commentary on singles, possibly some commentary on championship Sunday and then playing on Friday and Saturday. So that's the plan moving forward. So

Rob  34:50
that's kind of exciting. If they're smart. They'd put us in the booth together for the commentary.

Adam Stone  34:54
Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. For sure. They're smart. If they're smart, so

Rob  34:57
Okay, what else we got? We got

Adam Stone  34:59
well, you Yeah, let's let's look here. So that's okay. So that's singles. Just one

Rob  35:03
last note on. And I didn't know about this until I saw it on NMLS takeaways from TOC. And just like we, you know, we brought on the weird precedent set of, of line judges being caught on court before the match just for, you know, kind of a standalone match for a PBA player. So, it said that, and I hadn't heard about this at all, but it said that the singles final men's singles final on Championship Saturday was supposed to start at 10am. And it was announced over the loudspeaker several times. And then, I think last minute, it was, it was adjusted to be 1045, because of video production issues. But they didn't see Ben arriving, or people have been arriving at 1020 or 1030, with flip flops on before warming up. And it's it's assumed, it's assumed that he was just late and the PPA adjusted the start time based on his not being there yet, which, you know, if you reverse that situation, and let's call it baby dill, is there at 10. And he's like, you know, rolling up at 1020 1030. Like, that match is already over, right. Like, there's just going to be this just going to be a default.

Adam Stone  36:15
Yeah, no, I have no idea. I have it. I hadn't heard anything about this till you till you mentioned it. But yes, it's hard. Given given some previous stuff and what I know of things, it would be hard to think that it would be the same for someone else. Yeah. So yeah, that again, it's a very interesting situation. Very interesting situation. And I could totally see it, having, you know, them making that adjustment for for their top player.

Rob  36:52
Yeah. So again, gray areas that probably shouldn't exist, that we just need, you know, the tours are bigger than any one person like they should just have their they should have the regulations that are rules standby. If players can abide by them, they do if they don't, all rules should apply to everybody.

Adam Stone  37:12
No, definitely. Yeah. You I mean, you have to have that. I mean, you have to have it. Yeah. I mean, you have to have that in a wreck situation like an amateur situation. And when you're adding adding in money, pro players, people, you know, committing to being full time at this, their gray area is just completely unacceptable. People will take advantage and it will cause problems. It's just a fact. Yep. But yes, no, that is a very interesting little tidbit. There. No idea the exact details about that. I'm sure. I'm sure someone or someone else will talk about it. Well, yeah. So hear what they

Rob  37:50
have to say. Yeah, write comments on what happened.

Adam Stone  37:53
Okay, so here we went. Next we have we have mixed we have Anna Lee and Ben Gould, Kelly, AJ silver, Jessie, and Jay delivers a bronze. I believe that that Anna Lee did not lose a game in her Triple Crown victory, which is pretty crazy. To think that ludicrous. Yeah, it's ludicrous. Especially he even add in the three out of five and the app for the championship Saturday and she did not lose the game. So crazy, crazy stuff from Anna Lee. She's she's just obviously just the best. She's obviously best. I don't know how else to say right now. So let's see if there's anything else exciting. That's obviously pretty chalky. For the metal for the medalists, with, you know, Callie and AJ sneaking into that that championship Saturday, good results. Great result for them. Kind of that, you know, maybe maybe lower floor higher ceiling than that that bronze team of Jesse Irvin and Jaya J delivers who, you know, just seemed to always be there, but maybe maybe might lack a little firepower that Callie and AJ can bring. So let's see anything else? Interesting. We had the Newman's losing in the quarters to Smith and Kohler. So I wouldn't say that that is interesting at all. But it does kind of seem that overall, Riley has had, you know, a little bit more success maybe with Katherine and Lindsey even though on a per tournament basis. Anyway, I

Rob  39:23
think it's also just a tough place for them to for them to play with elevation with the harder a little tougher conditions. I think that's going to favor people with firepower as we saw in the men's final, right. So

Adam Stone  39:38
for sure, no, that's totally true. You know, they're kind of their offense is you know, forcing you to go for, you know, more than you want on the 37th offensive shot that you have after after they've dug out 36 of them. So when you can kinda that hardball that altitude, you're absolutely right rob you can you can light people up or you can you can attack body pretzel them up, jam them up. The hand speed is just, you just have less time and those conditions and I think that definitely is not optimal for the for the humans. No. Let's see anything else here of note. Not pretty, pretty chalky for the most part.

Rob  40:19
women's doubles. I didn't I didn't know this until I actually saw like, I saw it somewhere. But this Vivian David Susannah bar bronze with do you have that pulled up that drive?

Adam Stone  40:31
I do. I just pulled it up. I'm clicking to show all charts right now, Robert? Oh.

Rob  40:35
Speaker Yeah, like there has to be there has to be a better way to look for for random people to look up results of pickleball tournaments rather than going to watermans.com and navigating the millions of nonsense through there.

Adam Stone  40:49
Yeah, no, no crap. So I mean, I'm a tech idiot as it is. But I mean, manded that they don't make it easy. No. So okay, yeah. So the we have, yes, Vivian and Susannah bar who came in as the seventh seat. And just so you know, I have no idea why. But not only a Suzanna bar, the Dark Horse, she is the net Lord as well. So whatever. So they beat Melinda Wilkins and edit right to two locals on the Utah season two and six, they lost to the waters in their second round match, and then kind of went on a run back through the through the backdrop with a couple of really big wins. So let me take a look at that. So we have them. Beating Tarasenko and Gretsch, Kena. 15. Eight, we have David Goodwin as No, totally No. Totally. Absolutely. Then very next round, we have them taking out. Jesse Irvin and Anna bright 15 Seven, fantastic one. And then oh, right, and then beating Katherine and layup, seven and six, and the bronze medal match. So that is three very, very solid wins from David, and not even super close. They're totally not Yeah, none of that is title 15 815, seven, and then seven and six in the brands mash show, well played by them.

Rob  42:08
I think they're there. And this is why like, you can't just really look at two individual players in terms of in terms of their results, to see like how a partnership will do like you have Vivian who's like, she wants to live on the right side, she doesn't ever want to play the left side. And Suzanna loves the left side. So like when you kind of put two people together like that, that are super comfortable on their respective sides. Like you can have really, really good results that you like, to us looking seven seed surprising results, right. But like, when you put them on sides, where they're super comfortable and really confident, it makes all the difference?

Adam Stone  42:49
No, I know, totally. And I think we'll see more and more of this. As you know, we've, we've talked about it before designated roles, people getting so good at their craft, that it's gonna be hard to be both. So if you have you have do you have two left guys, you might you might need a I mean, there might be a situation where there's two left studs, and one might be better off playing with Johnny Goldberg or somebody like that. That's a total right side supporting player so well up shots. Shout out to Goldberg

Rob  43:18
Yeah. That's a perfect segue into the into the men's final, which, you know, there's been a lot of buzz around in terms of in terms of style of play, really. But we're we talked about it's it's Utah, it's the dura it's elevation, it's fast conditions. And it was probably the most offensive and aggressive pickleball that we've seen in a final, or really in any tournament, I would say like it was very, very aggressive. Pickleball there weren't long rallies, it was pull the trigger early and often. And for Newman and right, it worked.

Adam Stone  43:59
No, absolutely. And I think that I think it was cool to see that can the conditions played a factor but I mean, we all know that the the the John's die are very algorithm structured, like their patterns and their situations. And they Ben likes to be a bully. So he if they're not definitely not saying that he has slow hands, but if there is one possible thing that maybe on that scale of one to 10 isn't a eight nine or a 10 it could possibly be some some susceptibility to being attacked, and and 100 which when you put it back on him and don't let him move around and start the fire and you kind of beat him to it. I think that that is you know, obviously not a situation that's going to guarantee you a victory by any means, but it could be a good option to to kind of throw him and Colin out of the rhythm. So I think that's exactly what we saw with Riley, Matt and The conditions were great. They played great. And I think it's another solid job of sticking to a game plan, they obviously wanted to fire away. And they did lose that first game. And there was some thunderous counters from Colin and Ben throughout that first game, but they stuck with the game plan, they decided they were kind of going to continue to be aggressive, they weren't going to just go to a slow game after it didn't work game one. And it was 11 112 1011, six, and games two, three and four. So fantastic job by them. And I love to see it.

Rob  45:34
I think that's, that's what you just mentioned is probably the most impressive thing to me is that after that first game, they didn't get discouraged. And they stuck with the game plan. Because it's easy after that first game, like to throw up, you know, to press the emergency button and try to like, adjust right there. Like you see that a lot in pickleball. at the pro level, especially like you say, Okay, this is our strategy, you do it a couple times, it doesn't work, then you're like, Okay, we got to change the strategy. It's like, the sample set of what you just did is so small, that you have to keep going, you have to like if this is a strategy, you can't do it once or twice and it not work and then bail on the strategy. You got to stick with it the whole time, even though it's hard. It's frustrating, and you have to stay disciplined to do it. But you can't you can't get discouraged. And that was impressive to me that that Matt and Riley stuck with the game plan even though they got lit up the first game, and it paid off.

Adam Stone  46:28
No, definitely. Absolutely. Very fun to watch. Very entertaining. Lots of hands battles. And there was there were some choppiness and some juggling going on too. And I think we we've got we've gotten pretty used to that with Matt Right But Riley Newman was very much the the biggest instigator on court from what I saw. I saw a couple I'm not sure what game it was but went to touch paddles and Riley's lips were moving the whole time like so. So I I'm not sure exactly what he was saying of course, but there were there was some some tension and there was some you know, some palpable you know, just energy and crap talking going on. And so, you know, maybe Maybe Matt and Riley are meant for each other because they both but they both liked to do that. That's both part of their games and it was definitely an interesting dynamic out there. And I enjoyed it.

Rob  47:20
Yeah, I didn't see it but like apparently the first game Ben had a finger wag and that kind of kicked off the kind of kicked off the chip Enos but got him a got him a pissed off. Matt and Riley which sure you know there's not too many guys that actually played better when they're like pissed those two guys Yeah, you're right. Like maybe they are meant for each other because they step up their games when they when they start chirping and and get jerked and loud and angry and like they played they played really well. And I think just in terms of like actual tactical strategy what was interesting to see and this is it's no secret, right? Like Ben Ben sets pretty heavy forehand, his grips leaning to Eastern pretty heavily to meaning it's more of a forehand grip rather than like a continental, which is a little bit more neutral to forehand and backhand. It lets why you can see him just crushed four hands on counter sometimes, which is why it's no secret that you want to attack them on his left hip or even even the left shoulder because he's not going to be able to get on top of that encounter. He's just going to block it. And we saw you know, we saw Matt Wright who was head up who was head on with Ben really do a good job mixing it up off the bounce. So he would go left hip and then he would go body and then he would go he would go middle of the court just kept him guessing and then you know Riley would pinch hard middle with the pancake. And if unless Ben hits it perfectly hits a perfect reset or perfect counter. If he floats a little bit Riley's pancakes right there in the middle and like that's it's a dangerous combo and pickle it might be the most dangerous combo in pickleball mat forehand off the bounce with Riley just sitting pancake in the middle. It's tough to it's tough to manage.

Adam Stone  49:05
Yeah, no, I think I think it's probably the best shot in pickleball right now is single shot is Riley's Riley's pancakes so you're exactly right so you can see them kind of getting more comfortable with with Matt exactly right doing the speed is the same thing with when Tyson and Riley played together it's like their whole strategy is to get an exchange started and then have Riley just move to the center of the court and clean up with the pancake so that was the pattern often when deco and I played them is like Tyson would often speed up at me cross court just knowing that my backhand counter is going to go in the vicinity of Riley and that is a good situation for them. So to see I think obviously Tyson is better than Matt at some aspects of the game but the initiations and the speed ups and the hand speed I do not believe he is as good at those those specific things. So that That combination with Riley, if they can continue to refine that and continue to work on that, and Matt can know exactly where he needs to be on the second, third, fourth shot after he speeds up, and Riley can start moving to the middle to clean up, that's going to be it's going to be a tough, tough nut to crack right there for sure.

Rob  50:17
100%. And because I mean, we're looking at two traditionally left sided players, right like maths, not math, not like he's played a lot on the right, because he played with Ben, and he's playing now with Riley, but let's be honest, Matsa Matt's a left sided player, he he likes the left side more, but he's getting very, very comfortable on the right and getting really good at it. And he's his forehand speed up off the bounce is is really good because he disguises it really well. It looks like it's going to be a dink. And then I think the the most impressive part is not necessarily the initial speed up but he's so on that second third ball, his hand speed so quick, and then you know if he's not on it Riley's right there. And it's yeah, you're right. If they if they continue to refine kind of their strategy and their game plan, they're, like, we're talking to like, what Matt's 4445? For I believe he still has, and I would say I would say his hand speed straight up with Ben was was better than Ben, you know, who's half his age. So that's it's also just a really cool aspect of pickleball. Or being able to have a 45 year old, have faster hands than you know, the the person half your age right in front of you.

Adam Stone  51:24
Yeah, no, I've always said that, you know, maybe he's not the most but I think that Matt is one of the most skilled, if not more skilled than been, in terms of just a feel manipulating the ball hand speed. Now, Ben is significantly more athletic than him, he scrambles better, he moves better, you know, all that stuff. So I think total package, obviously, Ben is the better player. But Matt is extremely skilled. And some of I think when he first was playing Ben with Ben on the right, it was a little bit of a struggle, not because he didn't have the skill set to do it, but him committing to that role. And he's done a much better job at the end of his partnership with Ben and now his partnership with Riley committing to the right side role. And just you you said it, the most impressive thing is not the forehand speed up, it's him committing and being ready with his backhand on the next ball. And he's not even worried about hitting a forehand he's speeding up is stepping to his right set. And then the backhand is just so onpoint and he hits it. So clean and crisp, and everything to the right side of his body. When he takes that step to the right is out and everything to the left side of his body is Riley, and similar to what me and deckle would do as well. So

Rob  52:42
one thing one thing. Yeah, one thing of note that many people mentioned, they're like, all of Matt's speed ups are going out. Why don't they just let them go? And I'm like, you'd be surprised man. Like most of the I think most of his speed ups are going in. Like like that's that's the that's the most impressive part. I mean, some Yeah, he's gonna write it. He's going to write it your body's pulling the trigger your chest. Sure. But the most impressive part of the of that initial speed up is he's getting good pace on it, and most of them are landing in.

Adam Stone  53:11
No, definitely. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I think the the John's I had a busy summer and maybe had a couple tournaments they didn't play. So if there could possibly be, you know, a string of six or seven tournaments, where those those two teams play each other four or five times. It'll be really interesting to see the adjustments both teams make and yeah, I think all that all that good stuff moving forward. For sure.

Rob  53:37
I think Vegas, the Vegas line in a three out of five. We'll have Matt and Riley as the favorites.

Adam Stone  53:44
Yeah, I think so. I think it's very slight right now. But after that performance. Yeah, we'll also see if maybe there's 90 degrees the next tournament at sea level, we'll see if that yeah, it can tend to continue to go with that strategy or it's much more difficult for them to execute then you know, with a harder ball at the altitude so I think that'll be very interesting to see.

Rob  54:09
Yeah, I think last note on this is on this match is is unpredictability in terms of not getting into kind of like you said like Ben wants to control the dink rallies he wants to be the bully and push and like really move the ball around on drinks and wait for that you know that ball that's just a little high that he could that he can flick you didn't see many like you don't see Ben or Colin attack off the bounce much you'll see Colin do it sometimes where he's just kind of but you see it right like he's he's like a big wind up and he does this and it's never usually a deal. It's usually it's Yeah, yeah, no, but I think that's also differentiator. If you can attack off a neutral, dank off the bounce, which you know, Matt did it it will on the forehand, right The own CJ honestly had on like his his beat UPS off the bounce to CJ, I've never seen CJ looks so discombobulated like he, he was tangled up, like he was not comfortable. And he

Adam Stone  55:12
seemed very late on his slide. See, it was getting kind of this area of his right side. And normally he is he slides much quicker and he's on that and he doesn't get beat on the right side of his body. But he was

Rob  55:27
and I just I think Riley's actually got there's not too many guys on that play that left side that have a really good down the line speed up and Riley was able to kind of thread the needle to get to the right of CJ a couple of times, which probably just threw CJ off of it in terms of like covering middle and you know, covering line but yeah, so I you know, that's also differentiated that being able to attack off the bounce versus Ben and Colin who just didn't do it very often.

Adam Stone  55:56
Yeah, they like structure. It's a fact so like, also

Rob  56:02
why would amount of loves like you always get a lot a lot to the mat off the kind of that deep roll out of the air to float over but like we also saw like a weird we saw weird pattern of when Matt and Riley were scrambling. They'd be both back and just throwing up sky high lobs into the into the wind and like Ben really struggle with putting anything away,

Adam Stone  56:27
right? No, yes, that's the funniest thing. I mean, we saw a few offensive lobs as well. But most of it was just backpedaling and throwing it up from that. And somehow seven shots later getting back to neutral or getting back to the kitchen, and we saw it very frequently. So I like lobbying them. It's just another way to create some confusion. Colin doesn't like being loved. Sometimes when Colin doesn't cover, Ben gets annoyed and then you cause a little. Yeah, little dissension between the brothers. And that's always a good thing. Because that can happen with them for sure. So just it's just another way to stop them from being structured and the patterns that they want to be in that could be attacking off the bounce early. It could be lobbying, it could be whatever and you have to do it because when they're in control of the patterns and everything structured, they're you know, they go from 5050 with with Matt and Riley to you know, probably three to one favorites. Went when there's not that confusion created

Rob  57:25
100%

Adam Stone  57:27
Okay, all right. No, that's good. Good. Well, we'll we'll scratch the TOC tournament for there. I think that was a good recap. And I was actually Robert involved in a trade for Major League pickleball. And that trade is I was a team member of the Mad drops. That was myself Corinne card, Julian Arnold, and Vivian David. And the team jackrabbits was AJ Kohler, Mary and Maggie Brusha. And West Gabrielson. So the trade that happened was AJ Kohler and Mary Brasher, getting traded to the mat drops for myself and Vivian. David. So

Rob  58:14
can you can you talk about how this kind of unfolded like Who let you know, Mike, can you can you run us through kind of the timeline of like and how you got notified and all that stuff.

Adam Stone  58:23
I got notified that there was a I got notified that I was traded.

Rob  58:30
by who?

Adam Stone  58:31
So this was the I believe it was the it was Zubin, which is the team owner of the Mad drops. So he called me and said, Hey, I just want to let you know, you've been traded. Thanks for everything done that and then I was on the phone with new Ober. new owner, Richie for the jackrabbits. And so I didn't really have any say in it, or any knowledge of it or anything. And so that phone call was Zubin until that phone call was Zubin. Right? So yeah, so that's interesting. That's, that's an interesting part of MLP. So far is, you know, some, I think we might have talked about this first episode, how some, some owners are very connected with their players and letting them be very, making a lot of the decisions regarding the team and some of them are kind of not as kind of making their own choices and kind of pulling triggers on some stuff without as much help so you don't know exactly who falls into each category, but that's kind of how it seems with some of the moves that have been made so far.

Rob  59:37
And I know Richie like Richie is one of the more involved team owners Richie Richie is pretty intimate in what's going on and pro pickleball knows players very well and like follows results quite closely. I would say probably the probably the most connected team owner to pro pickleball in the current landscape of what's happening, right and,

Adam Stone  59:55
and he also he took some flack for his previous trade where he traded a Jackie Khalil moto for to Maggie Brusha. Mary Russia was already on the team so to get Maggie Russia so. Yeah, so he took a little flack there because I think that no, no, not talking bad about the brushes at all. But Callum Moto is pretty legit. So I don't think I don't think that Jackie probably played her absolute best in that first MLP but you obviously saw last MLP that, you know she is she's a baller. She doesn't miss much. Great player. So, so yeah, so he's he's going for it last of three events for this year's MLP before there will be a new draft for I think they're looking at going for six events for next year. So So yeah, so So Richie, Richie pulled the trigger, again, maybe maybe wasn't thrilled with his last move. So we went for it again. And it's kind of a standard to good, very good solid players for one higher end player. So you see this a lot in fantasy football and things like that, where Vivian and myself being kind of that solid middle of the pack Vivian much higher than me and women's than men's but AJ Kohler kind of has that upside to be one of the top two or three, three men in the event. So I think it makes it definitely makes some sense for both teams. But you know, AJ is I mean, he is definitely a stud and he you know, if you match them up with me, I would say he's, we're probably pretty even in singles, but he definitely has the edge in both both doubles. Mixed and gender. So yeah, AJ is a stud for sure.

Rob  1:01:48
I think. And this is this is an interesting thing. And MLP is so we have Richie that owns, Thurs, part owner and jackrabbits. But also owner of BLK, which is a little strange for for pro sports. Right, you usually aren't able to own two different teams in the same league. And I think I think that should be the case with NLP even though there's not necessarily financial incentive for the owners. Like if you're if BLK wins the championship, I don't think these owners are getting any kind of bonus or more equity or more anything, but at the same time, like there's still that's still a major conflict of interest having having ownership into teams, right, like you can. And I'm not saying Ritchie is because I don't think he is and I don't think he would, but you can manipulate stuff having two teams, right? You can you can he's one of the more active owners in terms of trades and looking at different options and, and stuff like that. So I'm not a big fan of being able to own more than one team. I think it just creates unnecessary issues. And again, like I know, MLPs, like they said, they're in hyper growth mode. They're trying to figure things out. They're trying to push this thing forward, push the sport forward. But in my opinion, shouldn't be allowed? And yeah, we'll see it, we'll see if it changes in the future.

Adam Stone  1:03:12
No, I think I agree with you, Robert. And also, I know that there has been a few players that have possibly been just kind of advisors to some of the team owners. And I think that that's a little delicate as well. I don't I don't know all the specifics. This was kind of just kind of some of the team owners asking players that are on other teams for advice about a draft or whatever the case may be. So just the fact that one player could be on a team and then have another owner asking that player about how has this player, you played with them three tournaments ago, what do you think about them? That kind of stuff? I definitely think it could be a little bit cleaner, just like you think having that that little overlap. Being a team owner could also, you know, possibly, some issues could arise from that. So yeah, interesting. For sure. gray areas, gray areas, they're tough.

Rob  1:04:15
They're tough. No gray areas,

Adam Stone  1:04:17
both gray areas and people, people. People are tough enough as it is. But if you throw in a gray area, combined with the person that makes it that makes them really tough, so people are gonna go for it.

Rob  1:04:29
I think there's gonna be you know, this, like you said, this is the last, it's the last MLP event this year gonna be in Columbus, Ohio, October 14 to 16th at an indoor venue. I've never been to Columbus, not necessarily pumped to go to Ohio, but hey, I'm doing but I think with this being the last event of the year, and kind of the last event with all the players on their respective teams. We're going to see a few more I would say we're going to see some more activity, a flurry of activity with trades with a Um, with drops the Supplemental Draft coming up, we've had some players get some really, really solid results, you know, since the last Supplemental Draft happened where players could be added. So I would expect some new players like, like Tardeo came in for me and crushed. Like, I'd be shocked if he didn't get picked up by somebody.

Adam Stone  1:05:19
Yeah, no, no, no, definitely. I totally agree with you. And I think that there's that we talked about the first pod that small sample size, and people really making decisions and pull in triggers with, you know, not a ton of information. And I think when that happens, we'll see more more activity, basically. So I know. I mean, I haven't been on court. I mean, I don't think I'm gonna get dropped. But I mean, I haven't played the previous two. And yes, you know, so who knows what's going to happen there? I know, you think

Rob  1:05:49
you think the team owner maybe looks at you as a little risky in terms of they might have to pick up an alternate based on like, you just being a question mark, based on your availability?

Adam Stone  1:05:57
Yeah, that and just, I mean, I feel like I'm very much in the, you know, for this format, and the top 20 For men, but you know, I haven't been on court, there's a lot of up and comers, very talented young players, maybe I could even get dropped, even though I was involved in that trade or whatever. So, I know, Corinne was a little bit worried about it. I know, I talked to Joey, Joey was not happy with how he played in that small sample at the Newport tournament. So there's, there's just going to be a lot of stuff going on. And that's, you know, not to mention, probably four or five other players that, you know, maybe didn't play their best game, you combine that with Tardeo, or a hunter Johnson or somebody you know, that has obviously is young and has upside, it's enticing. I mean, you you see it on the NFL blog all the time, or blog, Karina and I talk about it all the time, it's like we are established pro players who are not particularly sexy in our games, but just kind of jealous of but just rock solid and kind of get results. And the bottom line is we are not as sexy as Lyna or Tardeo or somebody with somebody that has that upside but not great but that has that upside but doesn't get consistent results at all and you know, a lot of that has to do with you know, partner and partners that you get but upside upside and being solid is always a little bit of a of a back and forth and a tough thing to know what's better. So

Rob  1:07:34
yeah, and we saw like I think the ranchers left a pretty interesting blueprint of you know, I also think it's it that trade was interesting in terms of you know, they've got to number one women right which is a huge which is a huge deal and they have you know ignatia Which which which came in and didn't didn't play well on men's right I think for we talked about that all the time for guys coming from tennis you know singles it goes singles, mixed men's is the toughest to crack or even women's right gender just because it's more nuanced and so but didn't didn't matter right like having those two number one women over overrode them not winning many men's and then James played well and mixed so it it worked out you know, clutch clutch looks like a genius.

Adam Stone  1:08:30
No, definitely it did. It did work out and they're they had a nice, they had a nice balance of solid and upside. And when you have the upside of Anna James and DJ and that was the missing piece was the rock and Callum Callum motos or rocks, that's where ours so yeah, it was very nice team construction. And you know, that's I think that's a that's a factor as well. I think that the when you're here we go again with poker. But when you're playing a poker tournament that has very even payouts, you play a more solid close to the vest, regular strategy, if you play a poker tournament that has super top heavy payouts, or possibly a winner take all situation, you have to adjust your play to be more risky. So even though some of the format that players will have, oh, you want that solid, you don't want to make errors, we're playing rally scoring, that payouts are so top heavy with it being like maybe six or 7000 for second and 25k for first that you you don't want all rocks, you need some outside you you need someone to get hot and in a specific day or a Pacific specific match. So I think it's very, there's a lot of ways to construct a team and I think, you know, having some upside balanced with a couple of rocks is probably the way to go.

Rob  1:09:48
Yep. And I think I think teams would be silly not to make like, take some risk, right? If you've been if you've consistently consistently missed the bracket play Getting out of group stage, do some silly stuff like, like, take some risk, take some chances to last event of the year, right? So why not? And yes, for people that don't know. So teams will like this is the last event for the teams that players are on. Because there will be an additional four teams, I believe next year. I don't know if that don't don't, that's not final or confirmed or anything like that. But to my knowledge, we're going to go from 12 teams to 16 teams. And that's going to require a completely new draft. So there'll be a complete redraft of players. And so this will be kind of the last the last match for everybody that's on their respective team.

Adam Stone  1:10:41
Yeah, definitely. So it's, it'll be really interesting. And I think you're right. I mean, take take a shot, you know, take a shot. So yeah, we'll, we'll just have to see because I think there's, there'll be some fireworks in the next in the next week or two, a couple of people getting dropped a couple pickups. No idea how it's gonna play out. But it'll be interesting.

Rob  1:11:02
Yeah, and I think even this last one, it was interesting to have a couple of really, really good players not know who I would consider definitely top 20 for men and the in the pool, like Edon. Like, ends a good ends a good player, I mean, obviously much better a men's than the next, but he's also a very good singles player.

Adam Stone  1:11:21
Yes, yes.

Rob  1:11:23
So that was,

Adam Stone  1:11:24
that was, yeah, that was the issue. And I think the first MLP I commentated a couple of his matches. And that was yeah, that was that was really the issue. It's just so different from how he plays his standard men style, to being the right side rock for Andre. And then to switch over to that take a lot of court situation was he he probably didn't play his best. But I mean, there's a lot of talent in there. And like you said, he is he is a good singles player, which is a factor. So also, I wanted to say a couple of things about the so that makes the Mad drops have marry Brusha, Corinne, Julian, Arnold and AJ. So this will be an interesting situation that we talked about earlier, is that's two left side men. Now they're both very, they're both very good, as you know, they very well might get it figured out and steamroll a lot of the men's teams and the next MLP, but neither one is particularly comfortable on the right side. So they both like to play left. And so what we'll see if that's a factor, or just their talent blows through that factor, and then they're a great team. So like you mentioned with the the ranchers, really high level women, very good men too, but really high level women, and the drops are now kind of the opposite with a two, two solid girls, but two very high end men. So we'll kind of see how that plays out. If they can, you know, sneak out a few women's doubles with Corinne and, and Mary, I think that their their men's doubles, and their mix is going to be very solid. So I think that that could be that could be a good team as well. So we'll see.

Rob  1:13:16
I think in terms of constructing majorly pickleball team, I think I would lean more towards the rancher style of having of having to really kind of more top heavy women. Because I think that will. I think when you look at MCs, typically, it's usually mixed results are usually dependent on the level of the woman more so than the guy, they're seeing more balls. So I think in terms of Team construction, I think having two top women is probably more beneficial than having to top men.

Adam Stone  1:13:57
No, I totally agree. I totally agree. So not only from like depth of talent perspective, but just exactly like you said, they they play more of a role in the mixed so yeah, so they're just, they're just more valuable. They're just more valuable than a man. And you know, it's not like a crazy, huge difference, but it's a difference. And in this format, you better you better protect all the edges you can get.

Rob  1:14:23
Yeah, I guess I guess it'll be interesting to see. So AJ will play with Mary, I'm guessing again, and then Julian will play with Who's the other one? Prof. Prof Okay, so you have so that's the that's the sacrifice they're making, right? They're going to be they're going to be good at mix you have to good men's mix players that are both left side players. So they're like okay, let's hope we can figure out men's and figured out somebody on the right and which I'm guessing is going to be Julian on the right. And then they both move so well laterally and mix that they can cover a lot of court so I'm I think they're gonna bank on the guy taking over a mix. But that's that's tough to do.

Adam Stone  1:15:05
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. So, yeah, it'll be it'll be very interesting. And I don't know, I think either one. I think I could see the mix going either way for them. I don't just marry normally play the right. I think she plays the right and Maggie plays the left when they play women's

Rob  1:15:23
see, I just know Aj is played a ton with Mary. So I'd imagine they'd stay together.

Adam Stone  1:15:28
Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. But ya know, it's yeah, it's, it's I like to, I mean, it's cool format. You know,

Rob  1:15:35
it's super fun.

Adam Stone  1:15:35
Yeah, shaking it up. How's this gonna work? How's that gonna work? And it gives us something to talk about. So that's good.

Rob  1:15:42
And that's the thing we could analyze. I mean, this is this is one trade, right? Imagine if there were five, right? And like this, it's, it's, it's super fun. And this is why like, I think, you know, talking earlier in this episode about emulating the tennis tours versus creating our own unique pro pro format. I would love to see majorly pickleball full time because just think about all the storylines and cool trades and stuff that that that are happening. Like it's unlimited amounts of content and talking points. And that's why you see, like all these talking heads on the, you know, ESPN talking endlessly about these leagues, because there's so much content, so many different things to talk about.

Adam Stone  1:16:20
Yeah, totally. And I like it to that it still, like if you just did a MLP format for tennis, like, there's not many people that are going to fall through the cracks. Meaning that you can just find a stud still in pickleball, like tennis, you're not just going to pick up someone that can be like a real real game changer, because it's just so tight. But now, like if you just who knows who whoever it might be Hunter Johnson, maybe whatever, Stefan or it has high Tardeo that all of a sudden is in that three or four months from when the draft happened to win the tournament is could literally be a top five player of the 24. You know, and that can still happen. And that's that's pretty cool.

Rob  1:17:07
That's pretty cool soup. Yeah, it's really cool. Who have we seen that with?

Adam Stone  1:17:11
So let's I would say that probably Lenna yet what? Linda was drafted very low, and she had a big first MLP I think she probably played not quite as good in the second one, but still very good.

Rob  1:17:24
She went undefeated first time around, so it's hard to Yeah, well,

Adam Stone  1:17:26
there you go. Yes, yes. There you go. I mean, you saw let's see, Pablo, TELUS stepped in beautifully. For the fives as well. And I know I'm overlooking a few of them. I mean, James ignatia, which, you know, who was when that draft happened, he was on no one's radar. He, and he shouldn't have been. And, you know, sure enough, a few months later, he's a top two or three singles player, and, you know, probably a top, you know, 10 or 12. Next player, boom, and that's off the waiver wire. You know, that's off the waiver wire. So, yeah, yeah, it's happened plenty, and it's going to happen more, and it's good stuff.

Rob  1:18:01
Yeah. It's yeah, it'll be interesting to see. Especially I don't know when the drill is going to happen for next year. But, you know, let's say, let's say it happens in December or something. And there's a there's a couple month gap of when guys are training in the winter, like, it's going to keep happening, because Pickleball is so young and so new, but that's what makes it so exciting.

Adam Stone  1:18:20
Yeah, I mean, some guys gonna go in that three months go from number 14 to number 10. Yep. And, you know, be a big factor in the, in the whatever. And I actually want to see kind of if, if it's possible that. Yeah, that's some of the I know stratmann was PPA contracted. I know you were PPA contracted. I don't know if any of the other PPA people could possibly who knows drop midseason or something like that and possibly be available as well, to the MLP format. So there's, there's lots of ways to get kind of people that can really make a big difference in the mix.

Rob  1:19:01
That'll be interesting to see. But also on the inverse of that. It'll be interesting to see if PPA pools any pools, any players and you know, I

Adam Stone  1:19:09
think so I think that can be very reasonable. They can make a really nice offer to someone that they're targeting that has made a nice name for them on the a PP MLP side of it and could be a factor.

Rob  1:19:21
Yeah. So I think that's a that's a real that's a real concern. If I'm if I'm MLP a PP, because you want like, a PP was so interesting this year, because you had all these new faces, you had all this new talent. And you don't want to be the theater tour. You don't want to be the theater organization, you don't meet the feeder, Li You want to be the league. And I think that's still up for grabs. So if you don't lock down your top talent somehow make it enticing enough to where they don't want to take that PPA deal like that. I think you have to do something right. You have to do something right. You have to do so. So

Adam Stone  1:19:59
yeah, no I totally agree with you. And yeah, I think obviously, you can't deny that the top couple in both genders definitely favors the PPA. But if you did a, a 16 player each gender like ML MLP is right now, I think it would be closer than some people think if you have to make the team's even kinda kind of thing, you know? So make sure, yes, they draft up maybe the other, the AVP could pick the PPA teams and vice versa or whatever, I'm just throw throwing crap out there. But as it gets a little bit deeper, it's a lot closer. I think, you know, the top couple is definitely PPA side. But there's a lot of talent on the ATP tour a lot, a lot of people coming in. So it's it's, I think it's both both possible, like you said, for each tour to be the number one.

Rob  1:20:52
Yeah, I think if we're looking at beginning of year to now, the gaps gotten much smaller between PPA and HPP. And MLP

Adam Stone  1:21:00
know for sure. I totally agree. Especially especially with the depth.

Rob  1:21:06
Yep. That's all I got today, my man.

Adam Stone  1:21:09
No, I think I think that was solid. Looks like we went we went about an hour. 20. And that's, you know, that's gonna, that's my activity for the next 48 hours. So I'm just sure you

Rob  1:21:20
got you know, yeah. headphones off. Take a nap.

Adam Stone  1:21:24
Have to have all right, for sure. Okay, buddy. Until next time, let's Yeah, let's try to maybe get together next week sometime. I'm sure we'll have something good to talk about.

Rob  1:21:36
Yeah, let's get your mic fix. Let's get these technical difficulties worked out. Sorry, not you profit.

Adam Stone  1:21:41
Profit profit. Yeah, she's got to get on that. I'm a little disappointed in her. But what we'll get through it.

Rob  1:21:46
We'll get through. Well, I mean, you guys are powerful.

Adam Stone  1:21:50
Something like that. Yeah. All right. Bye, everyone. All right later, guys.

Rob  1:21:56
Because you know why? Why? Because it feels right. It feels right.